Well she is home...

[redcars]

The head will not be hurt by that shim only the cam housing. Now as for the cam that is anouther matter.

[tdskip]

The head will not be hurt by that shim only the cam housing. Now as for the cam that is anouther matter.

Is the cam area seperate from the rest of the head? Sorry if dumb question, the head work I've done has all ben on inline 4/6 pushrod engines on the TRs.

Am I correct that if one cam gets replaces both should be to keep them matched?

Thanks

[redcars]

The cam is in a cam housing which is bolted to the head one on each side. The cams are not matched and some times people will just up grade the intake cam when wanting a increase in performance with a very streetable engine.

[dom]

Sorry to hear this. Did owner mention these issues? The good news is that theses cars are relatively easy and inexpensive to fix. Could be a sheared crank key, the valve issues may be secondary.

[tdskip]

The cam is in a cam housing which is bolted to the head one on each side. The cams are not matched and some times people will just up grade the intake cam when wanting a increase in performance with a very streetable engine.

Ah, OK. Makes sense actually now that I think about it as it is a cross-flow design. Thanks for the info.

[tdskip]

Sorry to hear this. Did owner mention these issues? The good news is that theses cars are relatively easy and inexpensive to fix. Could be a sheared crank key, the valve issues may be secondary.

The sheared crank key would explain the starter spinning but nothing else, I wonder if the debris was enough to jam it up and shear the key? Is it supposed to shear if something happens like that?

PO didn't describe the situation like this but there were extenuating circumstances (husband passed away, surviving wife selling the car after several years). I bought it non-running but assumed it was electrical not something like this - so no room for me to complain or get too bummed out. Stuff happens.

[Fi8spider]

Good outlook tdskip!

The keyway isn't designed to give way and it wouldn't matter anyway because it's an interferance head, any valves that have stopped during lift while the crank is spinning are dead meat.

It sounds like the timing belt is stripped out of it's teeth around the crank gear.
I wouldn't crank it over any more, there is a chance that the head, cams and cam boxes are salvageable.

Best case senario, a standard head rebuild will be required, maybe a couple bent valves to tend to since the cam locked up, actually probably better than skipping a bunch of teeth and continued to run which would have bent most of the valves. Gotta look on the bright side in a situation like this.

Get the head to a shop, have the bent valves replaced, get the valve seats skimmed and valves matched to seat, check that the guides are ok, replace valve stem seals while the springs are off, inspect the cam and area around that damage, have the head lightly skimmed for trueness, get you head shop to reassemble the cam boxes and set the cam clearances.

Parts wise at, a minimum you'll need a Valve Regrind Gasket set, this should (but not always) contain the valve stem seals, cam box to head gaskets and cam seals to give to your machine shop.
You'll need a timing belt (obviously), a tensioner bearing, fresh oil, a filter and some coolant.

If the engine has any oil leaks out of the front crank or auxillary shaft seals this would also be a good time to replace them.

Oh - I forgot to mention, check the condition of the bores before any of this just to make sure you're doing all this work to a bottom end that is worth doing.

Cheers

[tdskip]

It sounds like the timing belt is stripped out of it's teeth around the crank gear.
I wouldn't crank it over any more, there is a chance that the head, cams and cam boxes are salvageable.

Understood - once I realized the belt wasn't spinning I've not disturbed the engine.

Sounds like the cam clearances etc can be set with the head off a unit? Do all than and then "just" rebolt the head to the bottom end and then off I go? (assuming nothing else has been destroyed that is)

I can imagine there are a lot of "might as well..." items that come up at this point.

[narfire]

Sounds like the cam clearances etc can be set with the head off a unit? Do all than and then "just" rebolt the head to the bottom end and then off I go?

Yes, the easiest place to get the clearances dialed in.
I found one of those "Work-Mates" are great for this. Clamp the head to it and the valves are not compromised when you rotate the cams.
Chris

[giuliot60]

I would also change the water pump since you're going to be doing the work on the front end of the engine.

Here's a link to the steps taken by a novice Spider owner while changing his timing belt, including pictures. http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic ... 5&p=127638 I would search out the best method for removing the crank shaft nut. The engine technique is dangerous, and in your situation not possible.

Some of the best crank nut removing techniques I've read about (since I'm close to doing it for the first time) is to attach the 38mm socket with a breaker bar and a 4ft length of black pipe for leverage. You may also want to apply PB Blaster or similar penetrating solution to the nut since they tend to be difficult to remove, a couple of days before attempting the removal. I also found a thread (I believe on mirafiori.com) where someone suggested using a custom made bracket constructed from a piece of angled steel that is attached to the flywheel to keep the crank from turning when applying pressure to release the nut. I'll see if I can find the link.

Some use the "rope trick" in the first cylinder to prevent the crank from turning with success, and some use a chain wrench around the crank pulley.

There are lots of threads on the timing belt procedure. Read as many as you can and review the procedure in a Fiat shop manual (if you don't have one, get one) before proceeding.

Good luck!

[tdskip]

Thanks guys - really appreciate the coaching.

I'm traveling for work this week, but will ping back once I get a plan together.

Thanks - what a great community here.

[Exit98]

Giuliot &Tdskip,

On my 1800 cc and the one I helped with two weeks ago (opened beer) didn''t require removal of the crank nut. There's room to slip the belt passed it.

TD, she's going to be a good one once you sort through this stuff. Nice car.

[giuliot60]

OK Doug. I know you can on some cars, but doesn't that have to do with whether the cover and backing plate are on or off?

How did you do with the storm?

I used to live/work on the Shore by Asbury Park/Long Branch in the early 80's, actually when I had my '74 Spider.

[Exit98]

Giuliot

I think its only the 2 liter motors that you have to remove the crank nut, but I'm no expert, others will know for sure. The 2 1800's I was involved with did not.

Here's where I posted about the storm. We are fine, but the devistation along the coast is overwhelming.

http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20946

We got our power back Saturday night, which we were very gratful for as its been getting colder. Many many more are still without though.

My son lives in Charlotte. He works for Habitat for Humanities. We won't be down to visit again probably till February or so. Maybe we can meet up.

Us Jersey guys show up all over the place.

[giuliot60]

Glad you're OK. You guys got hit bad.

Most of my family is in the NY/NJ area and all are OK. My folks in Oceanside, LI still don't have power and got some water in their house, but considering they're OK. They are currently staying with my brother in Brooklyn who never lost power or experienced any issues from the storm. I do have an uncle that lives in Breezy Point, but is currently with my cousin in Brooklyn.

That would be great to hook up Doug. My civil engineer brother, who currently lives in Pinehurst, NC used to work for H for H, but up in the NYC area. What part of Charlotte is your son in?

Maybe you can help me with my timing belt.

Giulio