Running power to garage and shed, pipe size.

[spiderrey]

Im running 110 and 220. Separate pipes for each. What size pipe should I run? 110 and 220 are to the garag, 110 to the shed and back of the yard for future use.

[dmwhiteoak]

I'm guessing your meaning what size conduit. That would depend on the size of wire your going to run. Personally , I would run 10 gauge for the 220 and 12 gauge for the 110. How many amps do you think you will be drawing? That has alot to do with the wire size and the distance is also a factor. Both in one conduit or separated. Maytag is gonna be the expert here but this is what I would do. 10 and 12 gauge. 3/4 conduit if both run together. 1/2" if separate.

[spiderrey]

O K. Its about a 45 foot run to the 60 gallon compressor in my garage, thats for the 220. The 110 will go to the same spot. Then it will branch out in the garage.
There is already 110 there but its run in a rusty metal pipe that is only 7 inches down. I figure Ill replace it while I have an 18 inch deep trench already dug.

The other 110 will run at least twice the distance to the back of the yard and the shed. Back of the yard is for future use. Home depot guy said I should use 8 gauge for the 220.
Thanx

[jimincalif]

There are code requirements for this, even if you're not pulling a permit you want to be sure you are doing the work to code, both for safety and future resale.

Wire size is about load (in amps), distance, and voltage drop. There are a number of websites and books available that provide information on this. You typically want to limit the voltage drop to 2% or less. Looking at a table in my book, at 40 amps, 8ga wire is good for a 90' run, 6ga up to 140'.

It might be better to install a subpanel in the garage, feed it with 220 from the main panel, 4 conductors, red and black for hots, white for neutral and green for ground. Wire the red and black to a double paired circuit breaker in the panel (depending on your power needs you might want to do up to a 50a subpanel in the garage for adding stuff. At the new subpanel, you do not bond the ground bus and the neutral bus, they should be electrically separate and bonded only at your main panel.

Now with a nice subpanel in the garage you can add multiple 220 or 110 branch circuits from it to where ever you want in the garage.

Regarding conduit size, here is a link to a table for this. If you are using Schedule 40 PVC you can run up to 4 6ga wires in 3/4" PVC.

http://www.jhlarson.com/ind_tables/fill/pvcfill.htm

FYI I ran a 50amp subpanel for my spa, total run about 95'. I used 6ga stranded wire and even though 3/4" PVC was acceptable I used 1" just to make the cable pull easier thru 4 90 degree bends.

Good luck.

[dmwhiteoak]

For the compressor yes. Lots of amps at start up. Then since the 110 is running what,180' I would run 10-2 w/ ground. That would handle whatever you put on it. From where you branch off for the last leg. You may get by with 12-2/ground depending on what you will be supplying. If your located in the city you will have a code they want you to follow on wire size. I can't remember if 8 & 10 gauge will fit in 3/4, it should. I can find out. I'm at work so I ain't doing nothing

[dmwhiteoak]

Yea, what jimincalif said. I knew we had an electrician on board.

[narfire]

I'm not an electrician, but I second or third the sub panel served by 220 from your main in the house. I've done that several times over the years to sheds,shops ect. If the house is ever sold, the house inspection loves it done properly.
I did bury a 220 to my dry kiln in plastic pipe suitabe for electrical cable (tec cable) Think it was 10 guage for the 80 foot run.

[courtenay]

Absolutely essential to get the electrical code for your area - you should be able to google it - and design and install according to code. To do otherwise invites problems, with insurance for example, if there were ever problems. If you design and install according to code, there shouldn't be problems.

[spiderrey]

I like this, ( Im at work so I aint doing nothing.). I appreciate ALL the comments. Yes I know there are city codes. Thats why I dug the trench down to 18 inches. No , I will not pull a permit for this. But I will install to code or better. Remember, there is all ready power to the garage, but its a sub par install. This is an old house from 1952. Nothing to code here, so anything I do will be an improvement. Im a carpenter, not an electrician. So Ive done basic electric. This is above what I know though, but Im sure I can SAFELY pull it off.I like the sub panel idea.It seems that way I only have to run one pipe undergroung then branch from there. Im assumimg that means I need to install a 50 amp 220 breaker into my breaker box on the house. So would a 1 inch pipe be able to handle the run 45 feet to the garage?

[maytag]

there's some good advice being given here. But I'll back up a step and question why are you running two separate conduits, and two separate runs? In running your 220v, you're already running 2 x 110v. You don;t (and should'nt) run them separately.

Tell me what you're planning to feed in your shed (type of equipment, load size, etc) and we can help you save yourself a lot of grief and pain.
The best way is a small "load center" in your shed. you can get them in 120/240 with room for 2-2p and 4-1p for less than $25. Much less than you'd spend pulling a separate run of wire/conduit to feed something with different voltage.

gimme the details, I'll help ya figure out exactly what your needs are.

And by the way: while there can certainly be some variances in local building codes, it's less in Electrical than other trades. NEC doesn't give much room for locals to deviate.

[redcars]

When I did a sub feed to my old garage I found it cheaper to put in a 100 amp box than a 60 amp box. I feed it with a 60 amp breaker from my main box in the house. You need to ask yourself what you will want to run in the future. Will you want to add a welder along with that air compressor maybe an AC unit ect. It is easyer to up size the wire now rather than later. In my curent shop I have two 100 amp panels. Yes that is 200 amp total. I do spend a lot of time there and I have a lot of tools and electric heat and AC. That is powered afther my meter but before the house with seperate disconects.

[spiderrey]

Maytag, I was planning on running two separate runs because I dont know any better. Thought I had to keep the 110 and 220 separate. This is why Im asking questions. I like the sub panel idea alot. I picked up a 220 20 amp breaker to power the compressor. Garage, It has lights, the compressor, sandblasting box, I have a lincoln welder but its 110. Only thing I can think of is maybe in the future an ac box and small fridge. The shed is for storage only, it is gonna get a light and a exhaust fan at the roof to keep it cooler. Eventuall I would like to add some lighting at the back of the yard and maybe an outlet. Does this help. Here are pics of whats there. The run Im going to replace because its poorly installed.




The reason I even started this, its been sitting there for a year and a half. The car hasnt moved in a year either, so sad.

[maytag]

so, as a basic narrative, you'd like to pull off the meter-base in image 2, and go 60' -ish to the garage. There you'll install a load center, to run a compressor, sandblasting box, buzz-box welder, lighting / miscellaneous loads and future A/C and Fridge. Plus a breaker to feed a run to the shed (what is this distance?) for lights, exh fan and future landscape lighting.

Did I get that correct?

here's my questions:
1. What size is your electrical service to your house? You'll have a main breaker / disconnect means of some sort, that'll give you an accurate idea of what you've got to work with.

2. Then I'd like to know what the loads are for your compressor, welder and sandblasting box. They'll all have data plates of some sort. Or give me the HP and voltage of the compressor, and the max current of your welder, and I can do the math on those two. But the sandblasting box is an unknown to me. I don't know anything about those.

3. Is your shed located in the same direction as your garage from your home? In other words, does it make sense to pull to the garage and then from there to the shed? or would it be easier for you to pull to the shed from the house?

[spiderrey]

No main breaker here.

Ignore the plug it was temporarily installed yesterday to run the compressor. I know its a nono but it was needed. Its coming off.
#2 Cmpressor, 15 amps

welder 15 amps

sandblast cabinet is just a light bulb. The rest is done off the compressor.
#3, Its a 50' run to the garage from the panel. That included going up and down from the ground. Its another 50' back at an angle the get to the shed. The garage is currently useing two 20 amp breakers.
Does that cover it ?

[azruss]

copper wire is very expensive (dont use aluminum), so the less you run the better. I usually see a load center right next to the meter. It may be required by code. This would flip a breaker if anyone severed the underground line, rather than electrocuting them. There are very inexpensive boxes with a single high amp breaker. they are used for AC/heat pumps. On each motor you will see an mfg plate that will list the amps and volts. many motors can be wired 110v/220v with corresponding amps. you need to determine what you are running. 220v draws half the amps, thus smaller wires, conduit, etc. You need to add up all the max amps and that is your maximum load. most code requires a load center that has 20% more capacity than that. Your big draw may be your welder. a 220v stick welder will draw 50 amps. also if you are planning on adding electric heat, you will be looking at a 1000 to 1500 watt heater. watts=volts x amps.
So i would put a single breaker off the meter that is the same size as the load center you are installing. Run wire that can handle the capacity and then wire everything else off the load center in the garage.