what 16v engine fits a spider

[murrayarnold]

I have been giving consideration to putting a 2ltr 16v lump under the hood. I have been doing some light research and it appears the alfa engine seams a well used motor. Does anyone have any experience in changing out the fiat 8v and inserting a new engine. If so what engine and what modifications were required. And off course if someone has a good 16v motor then please let me know.

[divace73]

nice spider, there is a guy that has done it in Australia, depending on what you can get your hands one, it can be done.
http://www.turbo124.com/forum/viewtopic ... 11&t=10767

[mPedro08]

I seem to recall reading some years back that there was a 16V head conversion you can do. I believe Guy Croft also makes and sells 16V race engines with the base being the same block you already have. Do an internet search for some of these terms and you should find some info. There was a later Fiat/Lancia (16V) which was still based on the same block so technically that head should work...with likely water in/out modifications. Was it the Delta Integrale....anyone??

[bradartigue]

The Abarth 16V head is the right way to go, and you can even find them sometimes. They are not cheap. You'll need to replace the pistons as well. As far as engines that will fit, except for one hideous Chevy 350 motor wedged into the FIAT engine bay, I've never seen an engine conversion that anyone completed.

Alfa motor is likely too tall for your FIAT hoodline.

Slap a Subaru in there. That would be different, a boxer in a FIAT.

[kmead]

The one shown on turbo124 uses the Fiat based 16v head which has a reversed flow compared to our early cars. This engine was developed for front wheel drive applications and is difficult to adapt to our cars (not impossible) due to the coolant path coming out the back of the head right into out rain trays.

You can find more info about modifying the 16v on the turbo124 site with some searching.

The Alfa motor will be a bit more of a challenge as it likely will not play well with our crossmember.

[murrayarnold]

thanks for the advice guys. Obviously an original 16v head would be fantastic. I am trying to have this car as close to the original as I can. Minus the uncomfortable rally interior that wont fit my derior ha ha. I think that's bad french for fat ass.
Basically my 45 year old butt aint fitting in a set of bucket seats like it did 20 years ago.
I am sure there are a few of you out there understand exactly what i mean
Anyway, i have joined the guy croft forum and will feel around to see what he has. And if some of you are interested, I spoke with Mark (moderator) and he has a guy who can cast new 16v heads if he has an original. So if I manage to find an original I will buy and ship to mark and hopefully share this at a reasonable price with all of you. As long as I get my original one back off course

[basarabam]

If I could do it over I would have found a Miata motor and tranny to swap in instead of all the money I have invested in my 2L. Parts are half the price and can turbo or super charge for a fraction of the cost. With the money I could have saved could have had a new drive shaft built to accomadate the 6 speed tranny.

[blurple124]

You know, if one is going through the effort of making a casting, I wonder why you couldn't just make some modifications then that would make the conversion easier.

Ideally it could be 3D scanned and edited on a computer. Then you could print a 3D model of it and make castings from that. Then the 16v head could be a direct bolt on to our engines. How sweet would that be!

Entirely possible, if you have the resources. Rapid prototyping a cylinder head would be monstrously expensive though!

[divace73]

You know, if one is going through the effort of making a casting, I wonder why you couldn't just make some modifications then that would make the conversion easier.

Ideally it could be 3D scanned and edited on a computer. Then you could print a 3D model of it and make castings from that. Then the 16v head could be a direct bolt on to our engines. How sweet would that be!

Entirely possible, if you have the resources. Rapid prototyping a cylinder head would be monstrously expensive though!

i think that would be the way to go but as you say the cost would be considerably high, if i were to go those lengths I'd consider a oil pressure fed variable cam timing system, can't image many folks forking out the cash for it though...

[murrayarnold]

from my own point of view guys this would be purely the wow factor. I wont be racing this car as competitively as the original.
I want my car to stand out from the rest. I am of the mind there may be other who would like the uniqueness of having a 16v on the original engine that was based on the original one. However its replicated is up to however and whoever.
So basically without getting into a science project is simply for the fact that i have something someone hasn't. If i was to make any similarities i would point to rifles. They all fire the same round but the bodywork is all different. Mainly the cool factor.

[pastaroni34]

It all comes down to how much are you willing to pay for that "wow factor."

I have Abarth (131, 124, 037) and late Fiat/Lancia 16v (Fiat Tipo, Lancia Delta) heads.

I can tell you the late style heads require a great deal of work to make them fit in a 124. The coolant passages are a relatively easy fix. You still have to deal with intake and exhaust manifolds, none of which exist for a longitudinally mounted engine.

The Abarth heads are easy to fit but not cheap, you're looking at 10k USD just to get started.

Problem is there are very few people who will spend the money on an Abarth, much less a Fiat.

[murrayarnold]

so what head would you recommend that will basically bolt on to the original 124 engine. And then off course i would have to find new exhaust and inlet manifolds i presume.

[murrayarnold]

well after talking with Guy Croft in England I have gone for one of his stage 3 fast road 8v heads. Costing me $5k but i am sure it will be the business end of the power. Its coming fully assembled with cams the lot. Now i have a set of fast road cams from Mark spare. But i think i have a buyer for them.

[baltobernie]

Sounds like a great project. What are you doing for fuel delivery?

[murrayarnold]

Sounds like a great project. What are you doing for fuel delivery?

I have bought twin pumps from Deemon Tweeks in UK. They will be controlled manually via dash board switch. Obviously there will be filters in line. Then Mark ( moderator) is supplying fuel regulator and pressure gauge.
I run triple dual side drafts on my TR6 and believe it or not use the original mechanical crank driven pump. It works fine. Many people will argue this point. On a car running mult-icarb systems sometimes multi-carb systems don't work so well as all the additional induction can kill it. Especially on an old engine. But the TR6 originally ran mechanical fuel injection. So the carb set up was not to much for it to handle. It did take a few hundred miles for the engine to settle into the carbs but its going like a train now.
I still have the bottom end now to do on the fiat. This will be another few quid ( dollar) for sure. Then that will leave the drive train to upgrade. So nearly there.