feel better now!

[azruss]

the volcano stuff came from watching a special on the iceland volcanos. Dont remember where the container ship comparison came from. I usually look at the source to see if they are credible. i dont go to the trouble to independently verify. Not important enough to me to go to that kind of trouble.
Before one makes any..it just doesnt make sense...comments, needs to take a hard look at the subject.
example: when in grad school, i tutored in chemistry and physics at the local community college. The science building had pyramid style roof with the rooms altering classroom/lab with just a 8' partition inbetween. the expectatioon was that the 2 rooms would not be used at the same time. of course, this was not the case and noise contamination from the room next door was a big problem. So the physics prof saw a great opportunity and broke his class up into 4 groups. each was supposed to build a miniture model, test wave suppression using transducers and come up with a solution. They discovered by raising the wall just one foot eliminated 90 percet of the noise from the room next door. just about the time they arrived at their conclusion, the maintainence dept. shows up and fills the entire space. If you sat in those rooms and someone told you that raising the wall 1' would eliminate 90% of the noise, you would have said it isnt logical, doesnt make common sense.
When you think of the size of an ocean going ship stacked to the gills with containers weighing up to 65k lbs each and having to ply thru water creating enough friction to raise the temperature in the hull to over 130 degrees despite sitting in the worlds largest heat sink, you are talking about a boat with a seriously big engine that was built for power without any considerations for fuel economy or levels of pollution.

[engineerted]

Why do I drive a big truck? It's simple, because i can!

Why do I drive a Fiat? Because I can!

Why do i race a Fiat? Because I can!

I am all for green energy, recycling, planting trees and saving our planet as long as i have the freedom of choice. Educated and moral people will make the right choices.

God Bless America!

[surfingfreeman]

My apologies Azruss you may well have been correct, if the sources cited are valid, pretty scary
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/102 ... llion-cars

[djape1977]

But don't tell me that it's irresponsible of me to put my children and wife in the largest, heaviest, safest vehicle I possibly can, to protect them in the event of an accident.

safe? i don't think so
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jesmpFFY4kA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vty0YgS29Aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93tiT7K9Aak

i mean, what would you need to do to a proper car in order to get this result?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I60smSzHGgM

still, it's better to have a vehicle that ain't prone to turning upside down when harshly looked upon. i've personally witnessed three SUV rollovers in my driving career and all three times if it were ordinary car it would stay the right way up. i just couldn't believe my own eyes when i saw a grand cherokee jeep rollover after being sideswiped by a fiat 128, not even half it's weight. fiat driver walked away scratching his head while occupants of cherokee were pulled out all covered in blood and glass.

so think twice before you put your darling wife and precious kids in something like this

http://cnettv.cnet.com/suv-rollover-rat ... 19490.html

"Among the many vehicle types, Sports utility vehicles or SUVs are more prone to rolling over. In fact, SUVs are three times more likely to roll over compared to passenger cars. Moreover, 36% of rollover accidents involving SUVs result in fatalities. This is actually the highest rate in all vehicle categories. To curb this alarming rate, JD Power and Associates offered some helpful safety tips that SUV drivers will find useful.

•Drive at safe speed, especially on curved roads; keep steering smooth, avoid sudden turns
•Allow extra distance for braking, be cautious of wet pavement
•Secure interior cargo behind rear seat when possible, store on roof only when necessary
•Keep tires properly inflated, check tire pressure at least monthly
•Use caution when towing, avoid sudden turns
•Check around vehicle for low-lying objects before entering"


and to reply to other talk about commuting in a truck, or to use european designation - a lorry

this is a sensible way of doing it, that is if you're a builder, plumber or something like that. same weight, same height and same load capacity with less than half fuel usage.


but i guess it doesn't appeal to rambo lifestyle? no place for a gun rack on it? jaysus, grow up! it's ok to be fascinated by big trucks when you'r 6 yrs old

[RRoller123]

You fellows may like this: We have a phrase we use up here called a "Cape Cod Lawn". It is, as its name implies, a Cape Cod lawn, but the idea is that the ONLY thing that gets done to it is an occassional cutting. No watering, no seed, no fertilizer, no insecticide, you get the picture. Whatever wants to grow under the influence of a lawn mower is welcome to grow. It is immensely popular and was started decades ago as an environmental and cultural effort by people concerned about the geology of the soil, which is so sandy that pollutants readily move through it and the greater water supply is constantly at risk. It actually has evolved into a sort of reverse snobbery thing, LOL. We folks of "normal" means, look down our noses at the nubes who have huge multi-million dollar homes and their lawns watered and cultivated like a golf course. Separates the "real" old Capers from the posers.

[narfire]

Wow .. from heat to global warming to suv's and lorries.... love the conversation.

Gotta chime in here... Maytag is sooo correct in that big wins in a higher speed collision. I've spent 19 years in the fire service,paid-on-call, 7 of which was out of a town called Squamish. This town was between West Van and Whistler,where the 2010 winter olympics were held. I lost track after a couple of years as to the number of high speed vehicle incidents we responded to on that highway. Lord knows how many fatals and serious injuries we had to deal with, but the one underlying thing was that the bigger vehicles when upright, offered more protection to the occupants.
The newer cars are offering huge improvements in occupant protecton now with some kind of steels that the hydraulic cutters can't cut, air bags,engineered collapse zones ect. all sized vehicles are offering this but at a combined 120mph...again all bets are off.
In a roll over though, all bets are off..last fatal attended was a jeep cherokee roll over If he took the corner a bit slower perhaps it would not have happened.

Global warming I believe should be changed more to global climate change. Yes I believe the amounts of C02 being puked out throughout the world is making a difference. I believe the C02 is absorbing more of the heat from the sun, causing different heat gradients throughout the world and then altering the flow of warm and cool air. Used to be the equatorial regions had the heat, air rose and air from the more temparate climates moved in to replace it. This had provided a pattern that was relativily consistant and somewhat predictable over the seasons.
This pattern is starting to go to hell -in -a -handbasket now. The oceans temperatures are changing causing big shifts in weather patterns let alone ocean animal migration.... Won't be long before we see great whites competing for food off the coast of BC if they are not already here.
Over the past 10 years, BC has suffered a huge economic impact from the Mountain Pine beetle in our interior forests. Although the governor from Montana does not believe it or does not want to. In the past, cold snaps in the winter have kept this pest in check. We have not had the extended cold in a large enough area to kill these bugs when they are still in the tree just under the bark. Consequently a ga-zillion hectares of pine forest has died or has been logged to salvage what they can. Now the trees are gone or dead, many thousands will be out of work in the logging and sawmilling business and government revenues are greatly diminished. Just one effect of climate change that has/will affect us here in BC
Let the debate continue lads..
Chris

[maytag]

safe? i don't think so

still, it's better to have a vehicle that ain't prone to turning upside down when harshly looked upon. i've personally witnessed three SUV rollovers in my driving career and all three times if it were ordinary car it would stay the right way up. i just couldn't believe my own eyes when i saw a grand cherokee jeep rollover after being sideswiped by a fiat 128, not even half it's weight. fiat driver walked away scratching his head while occupants of cherokee were pulled out all covered in blood and glass.

so think twice before you put your darling wife and precious kids in something like this

http://cnettv.cnet.com/suv-rollover-rat ... 19490.html

"Among the many vehicle types, Sports utility vehicles or SUVs are more prone to rolling over. In fact, SUVs are three times more likely to roll over compared to passenger cars. Moreover, 36% of rollover accidents involving SUVs result in fatalities. This is actually the highest rate in all vehicle categories. To curb this alarming rate, JD Power and Associates offered some helpful safety tips that SUV drivers will find useful.

•Drive at safe speed, especially on curved roads; keep steering smooth, avoid sudden turns
•Allow extra distance for braking, be cautious of wet pavement
•Secure interior cargo behind rear seat when possible, store on roof only when necessary
•Keep tires properly inflated, check tire pressure at least monthly
•Use caution when towing, avoid sudden turns
•Check around vehicle for low-lying objects before entering"


and to reply to other talk about commuting in a truck, or to use european designation - a lorry

this is a sensible way of doing it, that is if you're a builder, plumber or something like that. same weight, same height and same load capacity with less than half fuel usage.


but i guess it doesn't appeal to rambo lifestyle? no place for a gun rack on it? jaysus, grow up! it's ok to be fascinated by big trucks when you'r 6 yrs old

yeah... so... if ever there was an example of somebody picking and choosing their anecdotal "evidence" in order to prove their point, your post takes the cake. And thus, you have proved MY point.

just because you can find a couple youtube videos of SUV's rolling over doesn't mean that they aren't more safe than a Ford Festiva, or a Fiat Spider. I can show you the same sort of thing that would (according to your premise) "prove" that helmets kill motorcyclists. but the statistics disprove that as much as they disprove your postulation.

And your statements that you quote from CNET: aren't those instructions applicable to ALL vehicles? Shouldn't we always drive in a fashion appropriate to the vehicle and the road? The SUV get's demonized because some people are stupid.

And your final sentence / comment is just plain condescending and offensive.
It also begs to be turned around to:

"jaysus, grow up! it's ok to be fascinated by {small red sports cars} when you'r 6 yrs old"

does this help you see how ignorant it is of you to suggest that because you don't like trucks or SUV's (or apparently guns either?) that anyone who DOES like such is a juvenile?

That's a pretty narrow-minded and waaay-out-there-ignorant way of thinking.

[djape1977]

actually, i liked guns i that used when i was in the army. ak47, m84 "pkm" machine gun, m78 7.9mm "dragunov" sniper, m92 0.50 sniper, however, i don't like to see them outside barracks. innocent people get killed on regular basis. so if you like guns and want to use them for real, join the army.

safety? yeah right, we should all drive tanks equipped with about a dozen airbags. that way we could play bumper cars on public roads. sc**** pollution, resources used to make them, just go on and invade another country and than ask yourself how come people hate us?

how safe the suv's are? very safe. in my 15 years driving im yet to see a sedan rollover. sure, don't believe me, believe stupid adverts.

even if human acivity is not the main contributor to global warming, we should still try to minimize our carbon footprint.
getting rid of fuel guzzlers is a good place to begin.
and don't get me wrong, buying a prius ain't the way to go either, it's carbon footprint and pollution made while making it is immense.

[maytag]

Nice. I like how you completely ignored my arguments / commentary and went right back to making your own points (badly) again. I guess the good thing is that you're proving yourself to be a fool, without any help from any of the rest of us.

actually, i liked guns i that used when i was in the army. ak47, m84 "pkm" machine gun, m78 7.9mm "dragunov" sniper, m92 0.50 sniper, however, i don't like to see them outside barracks. innocent people get killed on regular basis. so if you like guns and want to use them for real, join the army.

So, guns kill innocent people. All on their own, right? Just like the SUV's. Now I get ya. So, somebody bent on killing innocent people isn't at fault: Browning Arms is, right? And the idiot driving too fast for conditions isn't to blame, the SUV is. Right? Am I understanding your points correctly?
And you suggesting I go join the Army: that's laughable. I won't bore you with my credentials, or those of my family. You're not the sort who'd care anyway, right? But I WILL make the point that the very LAST thing you want in the military is somebody who joins SOLELY because it's the only way he can get his hands on guns.

safety? yeah right, we should all drive tanks equipped with about a dozen airbags. that way we could play bumper cars on public roads. sc**** pollution, resources used to make them, just go on and invade another country and than ask yourself how come people hate us?

how safe the suv's are? very safe. in my 15 years driving im yet to see a sedan rollover. sure, don't believe me, believe stupid adverts.

So here we have a prime example of rhetoric, taken to stupidity. tanks, bumpercars, whatever dood. I'm just saying that when you make a hypocritical statement like this: "it's okay to like enthusiast cars, as long as it's the same ones I like. But if you like something different than I like, expect me to blast you!" ---- then you should expect to be called-out on it.
Some of us like trucks. Some of us like SUV's. And yes, they are safer than smaller cars. When you suggest I'm blindly following advertisements, I wouldn't even know what advertisements you are referring to. So let's look at the real evidence, shall we?

this is excerpted from a study released jointly by the IIHS and NHTSA. You can view the rest of it here: http://www.iihs.org/externaldata/srdata/docs/sr4605.pdf. It shows definitively that SUV's are among the safest cars to be in if you are in a crash. In fact, the study lists the top 26 safest cars to be in, and of those 26, 15 are SUV's, including 7 of the top 10. Rant all you like. Facts are there in front of you.

even if human acivity is not the main contributor to global warming, we should still try to minimize our carbon footprint.
getting rid of fuel guzzlers is a good place to begin.
and don't get me wrong, buying a prius ain't the way to go either, it's carbon footprint and pollution made while making it is immense.

getting rid of fuel guzzlers. hmmm.
What sort of gas mileage do you get in your spider? My late-model Mercedes V8 SUV get's 22mpg. My wife's restored Isuzu Amigo SUV get's 34mpg. These are measured, not advertised. So where would you like to draw the line on "gas guzzlers we should get rid of"? But a question I'm MORE interested in: why is it up to you to draw that line for the rest of us? And since we obviously can't look the the Prius (the Iconic poster-child for green cars) as a viable option: would you like to make us a short list of what cars you ARE okay with the world driving?

It seems to me as if you are the one who has been duped by the media.

"Physician; heal thyself!"

[maytag]

... just go on and invade another country and than ask yourself how come people hate us?

oh and by the way: even as stupid a comment as the above is ('cuz really, what the hell does that have to do with me liking SUV's?) I still would like to tell you that I don't give a $h!t who you think hates us. You seem to be part of the group who loves to hate Americans. What concerns me is that as far as I know; you ARE American.

Self-loathing sucks. Especially when it's unfounded projection.

I lived in Europe for 4 years, and Canada for 6 years. (And no, this time was NOT military service-related.) While this may not qualify me as an 'expert', I'll tell you that I never saw as much loathing towards America from the people of those countries as I have seen from Americans such as yourself.

If you hate it so badly: move. There are plenty of people from other countries who are (quite literally) dieing to come and take your place.

[johndemar]

Hey, it's only going to be 98 in Phoenix today.....a sanding opportunity for you Russ. At least until the T-storms move in.

And my take on the other stuff.....drive what makes you smile!

[azruss]

actually, john, i took advantage of the drop and got a little sanding in last night.

Since i started this terminator thread (just wont die ), i'll weigh in on the SUV thing. when it comes to safety and gas guzzling, you cant compare new to old. in the 70s if you have a vehicle that could do 0-60 in 10 secs, you had a fast car. now that is considered slow. fuel wise if you got 25 mpg with a 3000# or less vehicle, you did well. By current standards, if we all went back to vehicles that did a 10 sec 0-60, the group fuel economy would go up 10 mpg.
I have always been a lover of small cars. I dont drive one now (except the Fiat) because everyone on the road around me has big, heavy, high vehicles and i dont feel like being underneath one of them. The USA mentality is bigger and faster. I dont think we will see a volume change in this attitude until we have to wait 3 hrs in line for fuel, or have to fuel up on even or odd days, and we all have a 55g drum in the back yard for emergencies (many of you are old enough to remember those days).

[spidernut]

Ya, look what you started, ha, ha. Back to your original post: that is certainly hot. We are getting a bit of a weather break. I think it was 100 today. The best part is I had a nice 68ish degree ride to work. Aaaaaah, nice!

[djape1977]

... just go on and invade another country and than ask yourself how come people hate us?

oh and by the way: even as stupid a comment as the above is ('cuz really, what the hell does that have to do with me liking SUV's?) I still would like to tell you that I don't give a $h!t who you think hates us. You seem to be part of the group who loves to hate Americans. What concerns me is that as far as I know; you ARE American.

Self-loathing sucks. Especially when it's unfounded projection.

I lived in Europe for 4 years, and Canada for 6 years. (And no, this time was NOT military service-related.) While this may not qualify me as an 'expert', I'll tell you that I never saw as much loathing towards America from the people of those countries as I have seen from Americans such as yourself.

If you hate it so badly: move. There are plenty of people from other countries who are (quite literally) dieing to come and take your place.

fortunately enough, i am not. i've been to usa for 3 months and decided it's not for me. 1.25$ gallon was not enticing enough for me.

and to reply to the part of the story where you mentioned family credentials, in my part of the world it's very common to have written trace of family lineage that goes back to 13th or 14th century, so nothing you could possibly produce could impress me.

[Gunsmith]

69' this morning but that won't last long...........Still take the Florida heat that all the North Eastern visitors complain about over anywhere else.