A black '69 124 Spider AS

[RCSquadraCorse]

Cheers Jim, much appreciated!

Riccardo

[Redline]

Hi Riccardo

Those Cromodoras are extremely rare and worth quite some cash. I looked forever for a set of CD31s across all of Europe without success. Just saying, don't sell them to a low bidder. In fact, hold onto them. You may be back for the handling those "fat" sidewalls actually give you. Over here, you have a lot more choice in 13" tires than the Americans, so you can still get some decently grippy tires which are also very "playful" in their feel.

Do you have any problems with running non-stock wheels on the car in Italy? I'm a few hundred km north of you and the rules are a little Draconian, to put it mildly. Neither my wheels (13x7 Cromodora replicas) nor my new seats are actually "legal" on a car designated as a classic, but I keep hoping for a knowing wink from the inspector.

If you want some decent dampers that are better than the rather normal gas shocks that are one step up from stock, I can recommend Spax adjustables. I have a set on my '71 Coupe. They are adjustable while on the car (unlike Konis) and have very good damping characteristics for the price. Spax UK ships directly to Europe at very reasonable prices.

Lovely car you have.

[RCSquadraCorse]

Hi redline, glad you like the Spider!

I know that these Cromodoras I have are not common (even here in Italy they are pretty rare, but I just don't like them too much compared to the other 3 piece wheels I have) and I'm planning to sand blast and restore also this set in the future!
I have a pretty good knowledge about wheels, you know, ladies like shoes, I like car's shoes...
I would like to put some 195/50/15 tires on the Oscams (that are worth double the price of the CD31s), so i would still have a good tire wall.
In Italy we have A LOT of problems about wheels and tires sizes, you can use only the measures printed on the car's document, but luckily classic cars don't have any measures on it! So basically I can run any size I want for both wheels and tires!
Thanks a lot for the info about the suspensions I'm really interested about those Spax, I think I'll have a look at them!

Riccardo

[giuliot60]

you have a great project car..............I'm jealous.........

I could sell u a 69 as for about 12000' then u won't be jealous

And maybe a little more than that. I don't know how the Atlantic factors in to it but here is a link to an Ebay auction for a '69, although it did not sell and the owner reposted for less money. But I think they can only get more valuable with time. And save all the original parts even if you don't want them now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 1123#v4-41

[giuliot60]

Here's another useful link that should be done to your electrical system.

http://www.mirafiori.com/faq/content/el ... estore.htm

[RCSquadraCorse]

Ok, so, today I've jacked up the car and decided to start doing what I'm be able to do by myself with the tools I have. Kinda worried about the general situation, but I hope to get some confidence going on... lol!
Pictures, they speak better than any words!
This is the car as it stands now on the jacks:

I startd by cleaning a bit (just a very little bit...) the underside of the car and the engine bay. It has been like living in person an episode of "Animal Planet"... I think I also discovered some new type of spiders and insects! This process took me quite a long time, you have no idea about how many spider webs and debris there were in the car!
The only thing I took off from the car is the air filter housing and as you can see, some previous owner (my father is the 4th) took the car to the butcher more than to the mechanic...


Now, talking about the brakes... once I took off the wheels, this is what appeared to my eyes... Front Right side:




Front Left side:




Rear Left side:



Rear Right side:





I've never EVER seen such a pile of crap on a brake system!!! All the caps of the bleeding system on the calipers are missing, some hoses are completely shredded and on the rear right side there is a ton of oxyd on the brake pads and caliper!
But it doesn't end here! Handbrake cables, there you go:




As you can see, when the exhaust was replaced the same butcher that did the job on the air filter housing thought well to do this good job with the handbrake cable on the right side! VERY smart!
Ask me why my e-brake is engaging with just 1 or 2 clicks...
This is a shot of the rusted MC


And now (sorry for all these pictures, hope you don't get bored) I show you some other details of the underside and of the engine! Let's start from the flywheel:


This is the tranny cover (sorry, I don't know how to call it...) completely covered with oil:


And this is the oil sump, also covered with oil...:


A worn joint of the driveshaft:


Last but not least, some shots of the crappy pulleys:
These are from under the car:



And these are from the top of the engine bay:



Sooooooo, as you can see there's a lot of work that need to be done. I don't even know where to start! Ahahah!
Do you think that the calipers can be saved? Or do I have to buy some new ones? About the new brake hoses, I've found the set with 5 hoses, but where do I have to use the 5th hose?
Also, I've found some parts to rebuild the brake calipers on ebay, can someone please tell me if these are the correct ones?
Front calipers: http://www.ebay.it/itm/KIT-RIP-PINZE-FR ... 500wt_1054
Rear calipers: http://www.ebay.it/itm/FIAT-X1-9-BETA-M ... 500wt_1054

But I also have some good news! Firstly, there's almost no rust! No welding needed makes me happy!
Second good thing is that all the suspensions towers and struts are in really good shape! Basically the big job that I need to do is: A LOT of work on the brake system, change all the pulleys and timing belt, clean the radiator and change the hoses, clean the fuel tank, probably replace the water pump (I guess that by looking at all that oxyd everywhere near the coolant hoses) and the alternator.
Of course this is just a first diagnosis, but I think I'm not wrong...
Any suggestion/comment/insult?
It would be really, really helpful if someone might give me a kind of list of items needed for the job, just to be sure that I'm going in the right direction!
Thanks is advance, and sorry if I've bored you all to death guys (I told you that I would have post a load of pictures... Ahah!)!

Riccardo

[giuliot60]

Nice photos Riccardo. Never get tired of looking at Spider shots.

I know it may seem a little overwhelming, but the car looks like it's in very good condition. My 81 that was sitting outside covered for 4 years has/had some of the same conditions. No rust (like mine) is a great condition, but your car is more valuable. Big plus! Just pick one thing, research/read as much as you can on the topic and just go for it. Every step towards completion will give you a great deal more confidence to tackle future jobs.

I would start with changing the fluids/oils. Make sure to use the proper one for engine, tranny (drop the cover while your at it and replace the gasket too), and rear. I don't know where the oil is coming from, maybe some of the more experienced guys have an idea. Then attack the brakes. Parts are relatively inexpensive here in the states, I would think they would be the same or less in Italy. You could probably get new calipers, rotors, and pads for under $200 US. The master cylinder is inexpensive as well. And while you're at it, change the brake hoses (I noticed a cut in one of the lines). My brakes were a bit stuck at first, but I was able to clean them, bleed them, and not replace anything (yet). The brake hoses are on the list. I may go with the braided.

Are there places like Allison, Auto Ricambi, Vicks, and Midwest Bayless close to you?

Then do the timing belt, and suspension rubber. I need to do both, but I'm able to drive it and take it up to 80 mph, but don't want to push it so I keep it under 70mph.

You have a nice size garage to work in, and I also like the VW Bug. Is that your dad's?

Good luck and take a step at a time.

[RCSquadraCorse]

Cheers Giulio!
Honestly I don't know where the oil is coming from. I will probably change the gaskets of the tranny cover and oil sump.
Here in Italy nothing is cheap for classic cars... there were places that use to sell used or reconditioned parts and they were cheap, but now the're going mad and they ask almost the same price as the new items... In Italy we don't have many big places for car parts like you do have in the US (Allison, Auto Ricambi...). People here don't have the attitute of the DIY on cars, they just take their cars to the mechanic... 30 min away from my house there is a shop that sells genuine Fiat parts for the 124, but of course it's pretty expensive. Unfortunately it's the only place where I can get the right parts for my 124 without buying on the net.
A full set of 4 rotors calipers and pads I think it'll go for about at least 300 Euro... I'm afraid I don't have any other option, I spent my morning at the phone looking for a new brake system but for now I've had no luck.
Timing belt and suspension rubber will be the second part of the restoration.
Yeah, that's my father's VW bug. It's a 1303 model and it's in pretty good conditions. Unfortunately also that car is now stuck in the garage since 2002/3 I guess.
In the lower part of the first shot you can see also a small part of another white car. That's my mum's British Leyland Mini Clubman from the 70s, but that's a daily car. It's one of my favourite cars to drive, it's so much fun!

Well, I think I have to find a way to sort out the brake system as soon as possible (basically where to buy a new brake system), so I'll be able to go on with the restoration.

I have a question guys. Does anyone know if it's normal that the flywheel is so much exposed? There are some holes for some bolts on the lower part of the tranny case, but there is no cover over there...

Riccardo

[fiat218]

Cheers Giulio!
Honestly I don't know where the oil is coming from. I will probably change the gaskets of the tranny cover and oil sump.
Here in Italy nothing is cheap for classic cars... there were places that use to sell used or reconditioned parts and they were cheap, but now the're going mad and they ask almost the same price as the new items... In Italy we don't have many big places for car parts like you do have in the US (Allison, Auto Ricambi...). People here don't have the attitute of the DIY on cars, they just take their cars to the mechanic... 30 min away from my house there is a shop that sells genuine Fiat parts for the 124, but of course it's pretty expensive. Unfortunately it's the only place where I can get the right parts for my 124 without buying on the net.
A full set of 4 rotors calipers and pads I think it'll go for about at least 300 Euro... I'm afraid I don't have any other option, I spent my morning at the phone looking for a new brake system but for now I've had no luck.
Timing belt and suspension rubber will be the second part of the restoration.
Yeah, that's my father's VW bug. It's a 1303 model and it's in pretty good conditions. Unfortunately also that car is now stuck in the garage since 2002/3 I guess.
In the lower part of the first shot you can see also a small part of another white car. That's my mum's British Leyland Mini Clubman from the 70s, but that's a daily car. It's one of my favourite cars to drive, it's so much fun!

Well, I think I have to find a way to sort out the brake system as soon as possible (basically where to buy a new brake system), so I'll be able to go on with the restoration.

I have a question guys. Does anyone know if it's normal that the flywheel is so much exposed? There are some holes for some bolts on the lower part of the tranny case, but there is no cover over there...

Riccardo

Should be metal cover,dust cover it call,at least that what I call it, bolts up covering the bottom of your fly wheel

[RCSquadraCorse]

Thank you Jim.
So i have to guess that the dust cover is missing... great... another part added to the shopping list.

Riccardo

[Weelan]

Cool pictures! I was surprised by all the oxidization on the caliper that was crazy!

I'd love to know where giuliot60 found all the calipers rotors and pads for roughly $200usd. Best I've found is auto ricambi $65each for refurbished front and $96each for refurbished rear calipers. And that's after you send them your old ones and get a $40 refund per caliper. Not saying you're wrong, I'd just really like to know, cause I'd buy those. haha

*Edit*
Also, I hope you find where the oil is leaking! My underside looks the same. Thus far I've found nothing, but I'm chalking it up as 30 years of never being cleaned... My engine bay is full of oil and grime too.

[RCSquadraCorse]

Cool pictures! I was surprised by all the oxidization on the caliper that was crazy!

I'd love to know where giuliot60 found all the calipers rotors and pads for roughly $200usd. Best I've found is auto ricambi $65each for refurbished front and $96each for refurbished rear calipers. And that's after you send them your old ones and get a $40 refund per caliper. Not saying you're wrong, I'd just really like to know, cause I'd buy those. haha

*Edit*
Also, I hope you find where the oil is leaking! My underside looks the same. Thus far I've found nothing, but I'm chalking it up as 30 years of never being cleaned... My engine bay is full of oil and grime too.

Thank you Weelan, glad you like the photos!
You know, I tend to take a load of pictures... professional bias... lol! I'm a motorsport photographer (and graphic designer).

I guess all the oxide came out from the brake fluid. On that caliper there is a broken hose and that's the result of 15 years of storage with the brake fluid flowing out from the hose (just guessing this).
Today I started to remove the brake system all around and got stuck because I didn't have the right wrench measure for some bolts... just came back home with the right wrench. The bleeding system on all the calipers was soooo hard to be unscrewed (as were all the other bolts of course), but luckily I made it and... I didn't have nothing to bleed... lol! Not a single drop of brake fluid! Well, at least the floor of my garage is still "clean".

As for the prices about the new parts, 200 bucks is nothing! I would like to buy a brand new brake system for that price too!

Talking about the oil leaks, I think that on the transmission there is a gasket problem for sure, while on the oil sump I think it could be related to 2 leaks, one from the gasket of the oil sump and one from the exhaust header's gasket. I've seen a "trail" of oil going under the engine from the 4th cylinder's pipe of the header (the one close to the bulkhead).
This is just what I suppose by looking at the oil marks around the engine and under the car. I hope to be able to check everything properly soon, and maybe be helpful for someone with my same problems like you.

Riccardo

[Weelan]

Glad you got the bolts off relatively easy. I ruined my brake line to hose bolts and had to track down new ones. Are you replacing all the lines as well as the calipers and stuff?

Oh I see. I'm replacing my transmission oil soon so I'll clean it really well to see if there's a leak maybe.

[giuliot60]

Sorry, you're right Ryan. I was working off of memory when I was pricing stuff out for a project car I was thinking of buying. Here is what Csaba sent me: "Here's the cost brakedown: Master Cylinder $34.40, Front Calipers $68.90 each, plus $25 refundable core charge, Rear calipers $96.90 each, plus $40 refundable core charge, Replace rotors if they are worn - they usually are, $16.20 each". I think I may have been subtracting the core charge. The cost is still reasonable. Who knows, you may not even need to replace them, maybe just a rebuild. I've heard of some guys just soaking the calipers in Marvel's Mystery Oil and getting them to work.

Ricardo, if you can't find a good parts place in Italy it may be better to order from the US and have it shipped at the lowest rate possible. Csaba (AutoRicambi) is Hungarian (I believe) and used to live in Italy and may have some ideas about getting parts. I'm pretty sure they get parts from there. It doesn't hurt to ask.

And BTW, I'm an art director/graphic designer as well, and also teaching college level design. I worked in the music industry for 18 years, even got 4 Grammy nominations for best packaging. Check out my website: http://www.giulioturturro.com

The mini must be cool. Nice taste in cars!

[Weelan]

Haha darn! woulda been nice haha. but ya. I just know cause I need a rear driver side caliper and looked around and that was the best price I could find.

Oh, my caliper has a big leak coming from it... Not just ceased...