political thoughts - read at own peril!

[TX82FIAT]

Good comments. I would ask folks to view labor rates and wealth very carefully. People are creating thier own circumstances for a better life every day. The upper 1% as they call it is actually very fluid meaning it changes often. People considered Wealthy today may not be wealthy next year. People take risks to earn money. Those risk takers that put thier blood into a business or whatever income stream they are working on will fail and be successful. The ones thast are successful will be successful again if you take everything away. Some of these wealthy people will fail many times. One of the great things about the U.S.A. is we can start out dirt poor and through education and hard work earn success. Notice in all of this commentary above I did not mention the Governments place in this equation. The Government need to get out of the way of individual liberties and not create barriers to success. So I ask people to be very careful when talking about the Government and wages or the middle class. IMO it is not the governments place to decide who falls in what class of living.

Our standard of living in the U.S. is much higher than it should be on world terms. Fixing the standard of living, being selfless and making sacrafices today for future generations of American needs to happen now. This will need to be done by spending cuts, tax hikes, devalued dollar and inflation. Their is no painless solution... So lets get started! Or do we want to continue to be selfish and burry our heads in the sand. We need to make our voices heard in this election. We can not double down on the current presidents bad bet.

[courtenay]

As a matter of fact, I'm sucking on a nice cold G and T right now...and having spent a great weekend at our local music festival, along with about 10,000 other old (and a few young) hippies, listening to some fantastic singers and groups covering a wide spectrum of music including K D Lang, Emmy Lou Harris and Buffy Ste Marie.
The last thing I thought about this weekend was POLITICS!!!
Oh yes, and after it all, my wife, dog and I took a nice long drive in our Fiat. Temperature here today was about 27º C, and hazy, thanks to the fires our poor friends in Colorado are dealing with.

[TX82FIAT]

Coutenay, I'm glad you had a good family weekend. Sounds like a nice escape to de-pressurize a little. Some time with friends and family to unplug is good for a well balanced person. I don't think of my mortgage during the weekend or how I will help my kids pay for college. However, I do get up and go to work everyday to secure the future of my family. Once a month I make sure I pay my mortgage along with other debts. I stuff money into retirement and other accounts to secure the future of my family. Why, because living in "the now" does not secure the future. The U.S. is living in "the now". We have experienced a cultural shift to enjoy the moment backed by consumerism to establish ones value in "the now".

The now is important and should be enjoyed. However, we must be forward thinking. I'm not sure who first said this but "fail to plan and plan to fail". It is easier for one to live in "the now" when they have a belief that the Government will take care of them. It is not governments place to plan for me and my family. It is thier place to have well thought out programs to help citizens in times of need.

[narfire]

TX82. You're so right in planing for the future.
Our federal government , right or wrong, have moved the goal posts again regarding the qualifications for a mortgage. They are moving back to a point in time when more was required for down payments, 25 year amortization, lowering the percentage one can borrow against the house. The qualifier here is qualify, if you do qualify I believe one can still get longer amortization, but you have to be able to sustain payments at a theroretical higher interest rate. People have lived in the now and have racked up pretty good debt that might be sustainable,just, at these rates but will bankrupt them if or when rates go up.I know several with a ton of toys and a limited income. That will drive the economy right into the tank and some degree of financial disaster. Now a debate again is if people cannot plan fianancialy themselves, government is looking ahead into the future so some peoples actions today won't tank the country in the future. Right or wrong? The news had some realtors complaining in Vancouver.. (average house price is north of 1 mil). Big brother or long term financial health??
We are fortunate we burned our mortgage last year
Chris

[DUCeditor]

I echo the thoughts expressed re the maturity, knowledge and civility here. Maybe the answer is to limit voting privileges to members of this forum. If nothing else it will assure our nations are led by people of great taste.

At any given time human beings think that what they are facing is new. Lately I've been monitoring some courses in the thinking around the time of the American revolution, including a deep look into the writings of both the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers. Doing so I've reached a conclusion that puts me in the august company of wise King Solomon. To wit: "Nothing is new under the sun."

The only real differences between then and now are the quality of the thinking one sees. Not that people then were smarter, but that they were much more knowledgeable about history -- what had already been tried and how those attempts had fared. The concerns that each side expressed reads like this mornings news. Usurping of power by varied interests -- monied and politically connected -- but equally what Jefferson, Tocqueville and others referred to as The Tyranny of the Majority.

Today all politicians reach out to tap all of these groups. And perhaps most to be feared is that "majority" - especially since, as others have mentioned, We The People have come to think that we have a right to everything we desire. And that if we do not have it then someone must have cheated us and have need of being throttled, by law if not with clubs.

Our forefathers saw that risk and came to the conclusion that there is only one real answer: Prevent anyone or any group from having power. And what that leaves is We The People -- not as a power class, but as individuals. Educated, caring and virtuous individuals. Not empowered by class. Not entitled. Not led to empty self-esteem. But hard working, hard thinking, and principled.

Not everyone would be those things. Not everyone would want to be. But enough could be encouraged on that path by strong families (Some time look up the historical phrase "Republican Mother" -- it has nothing to do with a political party) that a good society could be built and perhaps maintained.

But can that be done in the days of (pardon this)... garbage television? Crap schools? Spoiled and ego-centric children? Gimme gimme adults who act like children?

Frankly I do not know.

-don

[TX82FIAT]

Don, Extremely well said. I have been trying to keep things on a Common Sense level. There is an effort out there to intentionally discredit some great thinkers that helped shape our constitutional like Locke, Montesquiue, Paine....

[Jimb]

But we have to have people who are willing to challenge popular vote by standing up for what they believe in knowing they will face strong opposition. If, in fact your views, or the majority's are indeed right, then you should still be able to face criticism. But we should not discourage someone from speaking up just because we dont agree with them. Differences of opinions only strengthens democracy wouldn't you agree?
Jim

[TX82FIAT]

Jim, absolutely. I'm open to learn based on facts and history. So often today people will openly discuss how they feel and not dive into facts and details. One of the issues is that we are so bombarded with information that has a limited scope or a pointed message that we become desensitized or unwilling to piece things together. It is as if what is said the most is what is taken as the truth and the facts are left trying to catch up.

[DUCeditor]

But we have to have people who are willing to challenge popular vote by standing up for what they believe in knowing they will face strong opposition.

In the original design set out by the writers of the US Constitution the Senate was to play that role. They were thus not to be chosen by the people directly, but appointed for long terms by the representatives of the respective states. In the Federalist Papers the reasons for this are given and the importance of this stressed. The modern "progressive" emphasis on "democracy" led that to be changed and thus, not surprisingly, Senators are just another group of politicians trying to win the popular vote. This is very different from the 'wise men' above the fray the Founders intended.

Balancing popular thinking --- often swept along by short-term passions -- is so important. And it is frankly something that we have lost.

Put all of this together -- every leader a politician, poor education of the populous, the emphasis on getting everyone to vote with programs like "motor voter", the 24 hour news cycle and all its bogus hype, lack of real in-depth conversation of the nation's underlying values, and the gimmee gimmee attitude that is not only tolerated but encouraged on every level, and the dire straits of our nation are hardly surprising.

That is why serious civil discussions among the mature such as we are enjoying here is so valuable. We can learn from one-another, consider real long-term needs, and individually grow in our willingness to sacrifice self for the long-term good. Just the things that the founder envisioned!

(Yea for us!)

-don

[RRoller123]

Man do you have the right! The House and Senate have blended into 2 competing groups with only minor differences of tasks in duty. And with the current reconciliation tricks (Obamacare was done this way), either side can now introduce legislation on almost any topic. What a mess. The process has been perverted for sure.

[DUCeditor]

Our standard of living in the U.S. is much higher than it should be on world terms. Fixing the standard of living, being selfless and making sacrafices today for future generations of American needs to happen now.

Hmmm... trying to understand this.

My/our standard of living can and should be whatever I/we choose to make it. Wealth is not a sum zero game where one person having it deprives another from doing so. In fact it is just the opposite. It is easier for person "b" to accumulate wealth if person "a" already has attained it.

Let me give a simple example. Lets say I have nothing, no accumulated wealth, no property, even no particular skills. If I live in a poor community I am stuck. But if I have a few well to do neighbors I can offer to mow their lawn, pull their weeds, paint the fence, take out their trash -- anything at all -- and thus start to accumulate all that I am missing. Wealth, property and even skills.

Our problem is not that out standard of living is too high but that we live beyond our means. As individuals and as a people. The two are very different things.

Outside of my illustration are living testaments to the above -- and they are all around us. Pakistani immigrants, for example, who open a small grocery store in a poor neighborhood. (I use a Pakistani immigrant as an example for two reasons: 1) they are often as dark as their neighbors who blame the darkness of the skin color for their failure to have anything in life and 2) because many such immigrants are everyday doing just what I describe and prospering.)

The same is true among various individuals, families, communities, peoples and nations.

Sharing a piece of one's pie is nice, but it feeds far few people than baking pies does. I say: Work hard. Produce. Buy. Sell. All those activities build wealth and prosperity.

Whining, on the other hand -- the gross national product of more and more peoples - does neither.

-don

[RRoller123]

You hit the nail on the head, and this logic flaw is at the core of nearly all leftist thinking. Wealth and prosperity are NOT zero sum games, wealth is created and can be created at will, by free people acting in their own best interests. The money supply itself is controlled but this has relatively little to do with prosperity or value and is often confused. The idea that people only prosper by taking things from another person is nonsense, but this flawed belief is deeply held by our current and hopefully soon to be gone POTUS.

[TX82FIAT]

Don, I agree with your logic for the most part. Our standard of living is what we make of it. We have the ability to make our own circumstances. It does help if you are in a neigborhood that has people of better means. I have a very old uncle that walked anywhere from 4 to 9 miles per day to go where the work was with his tool box on his shoulder because he could not afford a car. He is a wealthy retired man now. Further, a lot of people are consuming more and taking on more debt as that has become the new normal. The new normal is being painted as the "standard" of living that we can not afford. All families should live within thier means and credit should be a nessasary evil for thingks like a house or a car that still fit within a budget.

However, I think a valid case can be made that the purchasing power of the dollar is partially tied to the value it holds as the world trading currency with the IMF. As a result our buying power with the dollar has not adjusted as rapidly to market conditions as other world currencies. Think of the Euro but without the backing of global market trade. Using this logic and comparing our work skill level and education level to the rest of the world, a case can be made that we as Americans enjoy an artificailly high dollar value that will decline over time as the world moves to a mixed bag of currencies. this move away from the dollar has already starting for commidity trade. When you look around the world today at countries in asia and Europe such as Germany and Japan compare our standard of living with thiers. Compare our education level and work productivity with thiers. We need to cut back our debt now and continue to increase worker productivity. In some cases that will mean more people working for a lower wage to compete on a global market. Without the government handing out checks to people because they can fog a mirror... the standard of living for many Americans will decline as wages adust to world markets and the dollar losses it buying power.

Not sure if I organized this thought as completely as i would like to. please let me know if this is understood and makes some sense. I should go back and find some of the economic articles I've read. i'm sure one of these academics put it in clearer terms.

Ray

[Jimb]

Don, I agree with you, but your logic is flawed. If the majority of our unemployed followed your lead then fantastic! Do whatever you can to get started...and look for opportunities as they come up to get ahead. However, I don't know how old you are, but I would argue that too many young people will not take jobs that are demeaning to them (or their peer group) and instead remain on the dole until an appropriate position comes along. However, they still want...rather expect...that all the bells, whistles and toys that are so readily available today (and force_fed to us constantly) should be theirs. And as we now know there are far too many financial institutions that feed off of these folks, and offer them easy access financing far beyond their long-term means...which is why our economy is in such bad state.
Jim

[DUCeditor]

Ray. A valid POV. I'll just comment that if this be true (and it likely is) - "a case can be made that we as Americans enjoy an artificailly high dollar value that will decline over time as the world moves to a mixed bag of currencies." - then buying stuff now makes sense, especially with such low interest rates.

People do what they perceive is in their own interests. They always will. Just like vines will always grow up trees even if their doing so eventually kills the tree they depend on for life. It ain't logic, it simply is what is.

People are less easily led then is imagined if the leading takes them in a direction they do not want to go. The best society can do is stop subsidizing what is not beneficial and stop picking up the pieces for people (and corporations!!!) when they do dumb things. They'll learn in time. Or die.

"When you look around the world today at countries in asia and Europe such as Germany and Japan compare our standard of living with thiers. Compare our education level and work productivity with thiers. ... the standard of living for many Americans will decline as wages adust to world markets and the dollar losses it buying power."

Yes it likely will for "people" pleural, but need not for a specific person. Application of intelligence and industry coupled with freedom to act AND freedom to keep the rewards of your efforts will assure that.

A problem today is we see the group and ignore and marginalize the individual. Personally I try to do the opposite. Ignore the group and focus on the individual. I did that while raising my son, when mentoring others and when viewing society.

The odd thing is that doing that -- helping people one by one -- is what raises the entire society. OTOH focusing on the group and not the individual lowers the standard of living and quality of life for the society. Think about examples of each, current and in the past, and judge if I am not right!


Jim, I don't buy into the concept that the banks and the credit cards companies are to blame. No more than the makers of the Big Gulp. If people paid the price for their errors the foolishness would stop. If leaders would lead the foolishness would stop. Both for the wise at least. And the foolish would, well, frankly, die off or move (as they did in the past) "across the tracks."

In my own case I grew up in one culture -- a totally material one where "progressive" thinking reigned - i.e, where society was responsible for my actions and inactions -- and moved elsewhere. Mentally, emotionally and, yes, physically.

"Live free or die."

-don