political thoughts - read at own peril!

[bobplyler]

Fast and furious was started by the Bush administration and was called Wide receiver. Same program different name.

Absolutely NOT true.http://www.economist.com/node/21543183

[red107]

Fast and furious was started by the Bush administration and was called Wide receiver. Same program different name.

Absolutely NOT true.http://www.economist.com/node/21543183

Really. I guess we all have different sources.
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2012/07/0 ... -seek.html

[maytag]

I will not be supporting Romney because he has character issues and in my opinion not trust worthy. I will be supporting Ron Paul!!!

teeheehee...
so you're one of THOSE people!

see my posts MUCH earlier in this thread.

I ain't gonna get all fired-up on this forum about a political topic.
SO now that we have a Ron Paul supporter here.... I'm afraid this is the last time I'll visit this thread.... for fear of being drawn out of my politeness.

[DUCeditor]

I've not participated in this thread because, quite frankly, this forum to me is a place of quietude in what is becoming almost a (needed IMO) 'war.'

My own concerns are pretty well expressed here: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/07/ ... stitution/

Some will no doubt ignore this piece because of the URL. Personally I try to look at many sources knowing that everyone has a 'pitch' as it were. Indeed, my reading of Hamilton and Madison tell me that is the way our nation was designed to work. But as this Op Ed piece explains, that is not so for much of what we are seeing happening today.

This thread header speaks of "peril." I, for one, see no peril in such a discussion but see much peril in our nation's unwillingness to truly have the same.

I particularly appreciate this observation of the writer:

"There should be a large and healthy sphere of American life that is insulated and protected from political negotiation."

Sadly, to me and apparently many others, that is no longer really so. Instead we have this (as humorously expressed by Ronald Reagan):

"If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."

Grrrr!

-don

[TX82FIAT]

I'm glad people are able to express themselves openly in this forum. Conventional wisdom avoids conversations about Religion and politics. I've held to that rule for many years and held my cards close to my chest outside of the house. I find most people including myself are pretty open to hear new ideas. I started this thread on this site because the people on this site are diverse, problem solvers and respectful (usually). Therefore, this group is unique and potentially thinks independent of the political spin machine. I am fearful of a generation that has lost the ability to independently think about issues and form opinions. Our culture is being bombarded from all angles to accept the mainstream point of view (education, class warfare, medical rights, women’s rights, alternative lifestyles/union/marriages, abortion, and on...). In reality, true diversity means accepting the differences inherent to all of us.

I agree that if you do not like something take steps to fix it. Discussing things openly, even when opinions differ is a way for everyone to open their eyes to what is going on. My wife and I often watch MSNBC, CNN and FOX. If we only watched one station or had friends that shared the same view points we would never change on positions other than to follow the same direction as the group. I think we have seen the direction of Americans moving along a common "politically correct" path for too long. The results are blind following with a harsh reaction when a viewpoint is expressed that is different. We need to openly discuss to help steer the ship.

The healthcare bill that was passed is a great example of blind allegiance to a political party and not the political process or the people that are represented by that process. How many of our representatives read the bill before voting for or against it. If you have not studied something and asked a few questions to better understand a change to our nation, how can you say you represented the people with due diligence?

A vote for Ron Paul is a vote on principle. I have a lot of respect for Ron Paul and fully endorse “some” of his libertarian views. However, a vote for Ron Paul changes nothing. It amounts to a wasted vote. In reality one of two people are going to win this election. One, President Obama – In my opinion he has misrepresented the truth on at least six occasions. I can list them out in detail if you would like. Don’t talk to me about what Bush did!!! Bush is not running for the Presidency and can not be blamed for decisions made or Trillions spent over the last “two years”. Two, Romney – Other than a story of his actions as a 16 year old kid in the 60’s and political stories being fed to us about Baine Capital. What has this candidate actually done that questions trust.

Obama sounds great to anyone listening with his short sound bites of fairness and compassion. There is a fundamental difference brewing across the country on what the role of government should be in our lives. If you want someone else to make decisions for you and your family then vote for Obama. I was raised by an entire blue collar community to believe we make our own opportunities. I was taught that we live by the decisions we make every day. If you don’t like something then change it. I don’t mind paying a little more in taxes to help others. I do find it ironic when recipients of the tax dollars paid to the federal government vilify the very people paying the lion share of the taxes. As a kid I was thankful for the assistance my family received from the government. I was not raised to be resentful of those that had wealth. I was raised to get a solid education, get a good job/career and have the American dream become available. Am I the only one that sees a shortage of good students making the choice to be a doctor because the economic incentives are being taken away?

[RRoller123]

Amen, brother! Well said!

[courtenay]

delete

[RRoller123]

My biggest fear, as an amatuer student of history, is that it is clear that through all human societies, greater government has always lead to a loss of individual freedom and to eventual tyranny. I wish it were not so, but it always seems to be. And we are presently experiencing the greatest growth of intrusive government here in the US since Roosevelt, led by an angry, deeply flawed and unqualified man who fundamentally wants to transform the US into a Euro-style welfare state. This is not a good situation. I sure hope that a change comes in November.

[TX82FIAT]

This post started off with the thought of a landslide election win for Mitt as the "other guy" candidate. However, I'm not so sure of that anymore. The compassion and fair argument is shallow and quick to justify big brother (Federal Governemt) running our lives. Even some state Government in places like California and New York greatly restrict personal liberties. In the news yesterday was a privately owned little restaurant in Pennsylvania that offered 15% discount to patrons that showed up with a church bulletin on Sunday. An Atheist group found the little family owned restaurant on the intranet offering this discount and brought suit with the state of PA against the restaurant owner. The grounds for the 16 page state lawsuit is discrimination against those that do not believe.

I suppose an senior citizen discount could be considered discriminatory if you are over the age of 40 but not a senior since legally those over 40 are a protected age group. Or the goverment itself could be considered discriminatory since it does not consider competencies for military service but youth.

I keep scratching my head and wondering when people are going to wake up. Not sure they will because the indoctrination has been so complete over the last 30 years.

[johndemar]

Indoctrination says it all as a very large percentage of the population have come not only to expect, but demand a certain standard of living provided by the government. Not to sound like a geezer, although I am north of 60, but the mentality of pulling yourself up by the boot straps to get ahead is simply gone from our nation.

I work in medicine and can assure you the rate of disability and medicaid claims has exploded in the last 10 years. I see patients in their 30's that are comfortable with the fact that the government will be taking care of them for the rest of their lives. I would estimate that at least 70% of them are still capable of being productive and working for a living, but letting the nanny state take care of them is the easier path to follow.

So no, it will not be a slam dunk for Mitt come November. Our current President is an eloquent speaker, and as the saying goes, if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth. Everyone has the right to vote as they see fit. I just hope our libertarian friends don't let their ideologue justification blind them from reality. This is the most important election in my lifetime, and compared to most of you I'm really old.

[WYSpider]

America is not "Home of the Free and the Brave". America is "Pay More and More to be Harassed More and More".

The government actively buys votes by handing out money. IMO an Amendment should be passed that makes anyone receiving money from the government ineligible to vote. This includes ALL government employees.

[Gunsmith]

Man I love this site, rather the members of it. I am constantly amazed at the depth and variety of knowledge found here. I am equally delighted as to the civility that has been shown on such a polarizing topic. I don’t know where else I could have read such a civilized discussion as this has been. It is nearly impossible to keep this post short but I will try my best.

This thread does show why we are in the shape we are in though. Just look at how many directions it has taken. I have enjoyed reading all of them but this is what our Law makers, Representatives, Politicians, Senators, Congressmen or what ever you want to call them do, they go in so many directions you simply can’t keep track of them. The difference is I believe they do it purposely and not organically as this thread has gone.

Right now our Politicians are fighting over who get’s to sit in the chairs left on the deck of the Titanic.

First off I believe every political title should also end with “Big money spender” because that is what they do no matter what their “Office Title” is. They are not making laws as they say, at least not in the sense of what we common folks out here think when we hear the term law. The politicians are just spending money and calling it a law and that’s it. As a society we probably really don’t need too many new laws and could probably repeal 75% of the ones we have on the books already with no net effect on our country. No “Law” is made with out money being spent on it these days.

I also believe most, not all, but most of our politicians regardless of party are crooks. Why would people spend millions of dollars on campaigns even at the local level if someone wasn’t going to get paid back in some way for it. I also don’t hate the wealthy politician for spending his own millions on a campaign if he or she is doing it for the good of the country.

We all must ask the question why are we arguing about spending money we don’t have and have to borrow instead of bringing back American ingenuity and providing an open market that let’s industries prosper including health care providers.

Despite the debt our current President and many before him have saddled upon not only us but our children and grandchildren people will still vote for him even though he promises things that can’t be delivered or sustained. We are kept busy debating health care and other issues that won’t be relevant when there are no more doctors or money to force into it. So we are left voting for Romney who is most likely very few peoples first choice but probably better than what we have now and this is still the best system in the world right now.

What “They” the politicians are asking Americans to do is to build the boat bigger so it will take longer to sink instead of doing the hard work of just fixing the current leaks. If fraud and waste are not vigorously attacked in every area of government spending the problems will just grow larger with the increased spending. Don’t ask me for more money until you spend what you have already taken from me the most efficient way possible!

The core problem that most politicians and even most Americans fail to address is that wealth follows manufacturing. If you are not producing a product that people want to buy you will no longer be collecting money. So instead of bringing manufacturing jobs back to our country our Government offers handouts that can not be sustained.

It’s simple, our own elected officials have sold our industry to other countries for their own temporary gain. If you came out with a new product you wanted to produce it is nearly impossible to get it done in this country. It’s not that everyone wants to have their products made somewhere else it’s that often there is no choice? By the time you deal with building requirements, EPA, OSHA, Unions, Lawyers etc. etc. it is nearly impossible to get it done at a cost your intended consumer could afford. Not that these agencies or people don’t have their place in manufacturing but they have all reached too far in my opinion. They have all demanded so much that they have cut their own throat.

It’s not hard to do, if you have a competitor you want to get rid of or steal their idea you simply create or find a manufacturer out of the country to make the product and then get the politicians to legislatively make it impossible to manufacturer the product here at home and you’ve won. This is done through a number of Government agencies and even Unions who are supposed to protect the worker.

If manufacturing could be brought back to this country there would be enough money flowing to make a lot of good things happen. However Politicians would still be searching for a way to steal “Their fair share” and the cycle will never stop. But as long as everyone is aware of it you can continually fight against it.

I believe the current direction of our country is chaos if it is not turned around and turned around quickly! The problem is that a large part of our population is happy making their voting decisions based on 5 second sound bites spoon fed to them by media outlets with their own agenda and aren’t willing to take the time to research or learn anything on their own or apply the laws of common sense.

Who is John Galt?

[narfire]

It’s simple, our own elected officials have sold our industry to other countries for their own temporary gain.

This is not unique to the USA, here in Canada we have the very same issue. We're fortunate in we have natural resources we are selling un-refined to other countries...non renewable resources. (except lumber of course) To create wealth, one has to make something and sell it at a profit... Seems simple eh.. Many reasons why this is not happening here, main one is high Canadian dollar. I'm pulling what is left of my hair at the attitude of the current government here.. and he claims to be an economist..
From the outside looking in from up here , I think you nailed it by saying each party wants to sit in the chair. Polorized visions are most definately causing quite the debate.

Now we return to the same channel...

[Jimb]

In very basic terms I think the biggest problems facing the US and Canada us that more and more of the wealth is going to fewer and fewer...thereby leaving more and more needy. For example, just look at big box/ big chain stores like Walmart. They come into small towns and consequently every small-time, family business dries up. Corporations are thriving while the masses are starving.
Jim

[narfire]

Canucks are starting to hi-jack... But Jim you are so right. The middle class ($40,000-$85,000 ??) is disapearing and they are the ones that paid the most taxes. As this gap widens, governments change. France has elected a left leaning government. Canada's opposition is left leaning. The far end of the spectrum when the middle class was squeezed out was Venezuala, that guy has gone way left and destroyed a country,(in my opinion). In my opinion they were elected to try and bring some hope of renewed financial stability for the working joe. The private sector here is constantly getting beat up on wages and benifits so they can compete in the world market with the threat of the product being shipped off-shore..What can the government do about it... Lower the value of the dollar, but intrest rates are already next to nothing. The public sector and admittedley some private with a monopoly, are continually asking for wage increases, better benifits, more paid time off... A huge disconect as they have blinders on as to where that money is comming from. Lots of labour strife here over the next few years. Wonder if doing a "Ronnie Regan" and sacking the lot and re-hire at what the private sector recieves. Cost of living has to come down also though..
Ok enough rant, back to a cold G&T..