political thoughts - read at own peril!

[Kent124]

Plus, we print our own currency.

So does Zimbabwe Have you ever seen a country print itself to prosperity? Or spend itself to prosperity?

baltobernie, I wouldn't buy US debt with YOUR money. If you are truly convinced what a great deal US debt is you should sell everything and buy US treasuries. You'll be in good company with the Federal Reserve. And good old Timothy Geithner would probably send you a thank you note; he's been looking for buyers since the Chinese have cut back so much.

[RRoller123]

http://www.usdebtclock.org

[TX82FIAT]

Yes, $16T in debt, but $41T in assets, 39% of the world's total. Also $44k per person GDP, all world-leaders. Any country (or any company) would be thrilled with 2½ : 1 assets/debt. Plus, we print our own currency.

Unfunded debt doesn't count. Any future benefit can be repealed or restructured. Businesses, U.S. states and counties do it all the time.

As a CPA I will tell you that you can not compare a for profit liquidity ratio to the Federal debt and national worth. It's like they say in London, Chalk and cheese... they do not go together. the above qoute sounds great but conveys a messgae that does not exisit as a measure.

OK, I'm really not even sure how to respond to such a crazy statement as unfunded liability does not count. Please give me examples of significant takeaways in entitlement programs, future benefits repealed or restructured that you have seen in your life. A future promise will cost what it is projected to cost or more. Lets make statements grounded in reality.

Having already grown from its historical average of below 40 percent of the economy to about 70 percent today, the nation’s debt is on course to rise to 85 percent of the economy by 2022, and 150 percent by 2040. By contrast, federal revenues have historically been at about 18 percent of the economy. It doesn’t take a financial literacy class to know that if you owe eight times as much as you earn, you are probably in trouble.

The consequences of continuing to accumulate this debt are substantial. Higher government debt means slower economic growth as investors will buy U.S. Treasuries instead of investing in new, more productive business ventures. It means that an increasing share of our tax dollars will go to paying interest on our debt instead of important investments for the future and social programs. It means that the government will have less flexibility to respond to future crises — whether they are economic, military or natural disasters. And it means that, eventually, global markets will get fed up and no longer trust that the United States will ever pay back its debt. At that point, we’ll have a serious crisis on our hands, and instead of making gradual reforms on our own time we’ll be forced to make abrupt spending cuts and tax increases — and they won’t be pretty.

Or we can read your information above about our debt to asset ratio and say everything is fine. All this concern about debt and unfunded liability is smoke and mirrors. We are the wealthiest county on the earth. Carry on and don't change anything. In fact, let's add health care to the mix and print more money.

No, we are in serious trouble and we are too blind too see it! We simply can not afford healthcare!

[Daniel]

The consequences of continuing to accumulate this debt are substantial. Higher government debt means slower economic growth as investors will buy U.S. Treasuries instead of investing in new, more productive business ventures. It means that an increasing share of our tax dollars will go to paying interest on our debt instead of important investments for the future and social programs. It means that the government will have less flexibility to respond to future crises — whether they are economic, military or natural disasters. And it means that, eventually, global markets will get fed up and no longer trust that the United States will ever pay back its debt. At that point, we’ll have a serious crisis on our hands, and instead of making gradual reforms on our own time we’ll be forced to make abrupt spending cuts and tax increases — and they won’t be pretty.

Or we can read your information above about our debt to asset ratio and say everything is fine. All this concern about debt and unfunded liability is smoke and mirrors. We are the wealthiest county on the earth. Carry on and don't change anything. In fact, let's add health care to the mix and print more money.

No, we are in serious trouble and we are too blind too see it! We simply can not afford healthcare!

TX82FIAT you made some really good points and i agree with what your saying !

I believe the only way we can get out of our debt would be to change the import export system it's always
in favor of the countries that import goods here to the US Why don't we change our policies to charge
the same import tax that we have been charged for decades. China, Japan, Germany, France, UK etc they
all charge much more then we do for goods to enter there Countries. I think it's time to get A little greedy
at the docks cause our Government can't keep socking it to the citizens for there poorly structured trading
principles which are very out dated. The greed of many many many companies from many nations has taken
advantage of these low import tax rates. If tax's should go up anywhere it should be to the countries that
have profited the most from our consumption. Sadly I am well aware how interdependent we have become
when talking about products and this would also raise our cost for them but we need to have some kind of
real solution to this downward spiral we are on.
China needs to be our first Tax increase by far more then anyone else and no one abuses trade rights,
patent copy rights, counterfeit products, replicas etc then this country and we purchase more from them
then anyone else.

Just for the record i purchased parts for some new speakers I'm designing and the capacitors were made
in France the coils made in Demark Speaker Spikes were made in Taiwan among other parts . My Fiats
are from Italy and in the next week or 2 I'll be ordering a bunch of parts to move forward with the
restoration of my spider, most of these parts will have an origin of Italy or Europe in general. So with
that being said I am like anyone else sending my hard earned dollars to a far off land somewhere never
to return again.

[RRoller123]

There are two other takeaways from the debt clock. First is the fact that there are presently 46 million people in the US on food stamps. Does anyone really believe that there are 46 million people in the United States that are not able to feed themselves by operating within our economy? Of course not. These numbers have been expanded by the Democrat Party for decades to create a permanent voting block, as is done with many entitlements. The other thing to look at is debt level by state. You may be really surprised at the levels of debt carried at your state level, and States cannot print their way out of the problem. We are headed for an absolute catastrophe. And there are many additional trillions in unfunded liabilities already commited in public sector contracts that are not reflected on the debt clock. It is obvious that these liabilities will not be paid. We could tax every millionaire and billionaire at 100% for years and it wouldn't help. So instead here is what they will probably do. In order to avoid almost certain civil strife and possibly eventual civil war from the entitlement classes, they will just print the money at the Federal level and flow it out to the states, so that ostensibly it will look like the debts are being paid. Easy. But the resultant inflation and devaluation of the currency will mean that we end up looking more like Zimbabwe than the former US. We collapse and God help the Western World when this happens.

[maytag]

..... and God help the Western World when this happens.

Oh, He will. But not until we let Him.
As long as we keep doing what we've been doing, we'll keep getting what we've been getting.
People (ANY people, not just citizens of the USA) do not change until it is too uncomfortable for them NOT to. Until we start feeling the pain of the decisions we've been making as a country, nothing will change. But the Entitlement Creators (often referred to as the "Democrats" ) will continue to hand-out band-aids through legislation, regulation and entitlements, so as to delay the inevitable. All the while telling us it's a solution, rather than a band-aid.

One of the problems I see though, is that even in the current climate, where many are disenfranchised and feeling like they want a change, we collectively lack the tenacity to enact a lasting change. As someone mentioned above. it takes many, many years of concerted effort and sometimes struggling to create a meaningful change. We have become a people who ask "what have you done for me lately". We don't ask what we can do for our country, we ask what has my country done for me.

I blame the internet.
The "global community" has blurred the lines previously drawn by borders.
The populations of the world today lack National Pride.
And we want EVERYTHING NOW.

[CajunMike]

Actually, there is a fourth option: Medicare for all. Talk about cost-effective! Medicare administrative costs are 1-2%, while private insurance is 5-6%. Per year. On a couple billion dollars, that's serious money. You youngn's are not exposed to this, but the difference for the same procedure under Medicare vs. private insurance is phenomenal. One bill, not six or seven batted back and forth between claimant, hospital and insurance company for six months. Public management with private delivery. Works in Maryland, would work in the other 49.

ps The government of Taiwan looked around the world for exemplary models of health care delivery and administration when they grew advanced enough to require it. They chose Medicare as their model, and it is widely touted as one of the best anywhere.

Medicare is great for seasoned citizens but it is a government program that holds providers hostage and can destroy an entire industry. It simply is too powerful now and if everyone was on it it would be obamacare on steroids. I've got a vast amount of experience in Medicare from the provider side. Its not all roses and in fact regulatory changes nearly decimated the nursing home industry in the late 90s. Medicare for all is the last thing I would choose.

[baltobernie]

Wow, I go offline for a while, and look what happens

OK, here we go ...

...And let charitable institutions do the work they are good at? And let the existing programs work to catch the rest?

I'd like a more precise answer: Are you in favor of denying ER medical service to those without insurance and sending such individuals to charitable organizations for their care? In Massachusetts 361,128 uninsured people visited an Emergency Room in 2005. Nationally, 55% of ER care is uncompensated, more than $40B in 2004. No charity is capable of supporting this burden. This is why we have only a few choices in fixing this mess. Dumping the poor and uninsured on "charitable institutions" is not one of them.

Why do you think the government has the right (let alone the responsibility) to determine how much the hospital charges for a procedure?

The federal government does this today for VA, Medicare and Medicaid. Your state government does this today for several categories of insurance, including auto, homeowner and more. My state government does this today for hospital procedures because Marylanders gave them that right at the ballot box.

If you are truly convinced what a great deal US debt is you should sell everything and buy US treasuries.

That's precisely what governments around the world are doing every day. Ask yourself this, "Why are they buying T-bills with a yield near zero?" The answer is that US currency is the safest place to put cash. You may think we're on the brink of ruin, but the Saudis, Chinese and lots of other people don't think so. Certainly, sovereign investors are always looking to dilute their risks, but the US is the only place big enough to accept those massive investments. If China put one-tenth of their US Treasury investment in pounds Sterling, Great Britain would be ruined by inflation.

As a CPA I will tell you that you can not compare a for profit liquidity ratio to the Federal debt and national worth. ...OK, I'm really not even sure how to respond to such a crazy statement as unfunded liability does not count. Please give me examples of significant takeaways in entitlement programs, future benefits repealed or restructured that you have seen in your life. A future promise will cost what it is projected to cost or more. Lets make statements grounded in reality.

How's this? http://slge.org/wp-content/uploads/2012 ... -FINAL.pdf States, cities and counties across the country are re-negotiating defined-benefit plans. They're re-negotiating COLAs, retirement age, contribution amounts, etc. etc. And the dollar amounts of these "unfunded liabilities" aren't really all that large, in the general scope of things.



3% is the national average. Today. Like Houston, New York (and most if not all of California ) are negotiating then downward. You probably see this happening to yourself. That $10 prescription copay in 2010 is probably now $20. If Congress desired, they could repeal Medicare Part D tomorrow, and $1T of "unfunded liabilities" would go off the books.

...Carry on and don't change anything. No, we are in serious trouble and we are too blind too see it! We simply can not afford healthcare!

I'm advocating serious change to our healthcare system, the topic of my original post. I'm saying that the existing method of dealing with uninsured sick people is unsustainable. Bill Freaking Gates could not afford to subsidize the present system. "We simply can not afford healthcare"? No, we cannot afford healthcare the way we're now doing it.

Medicare is great for seasoned citizens but it is a government program that holds providers hostage and can destroy an entire industry. It simply is too powerful now and if everyone was on it it would be obamacare on steroids. I've got a vast amount of experience in Medicare from the provider side. Its not all roses and in fact regulatory changes nearly decimated the nursing home industry in the late 90s. Medicare for all is the last thing I would choose.

You've got me there; I don't have any of your expertise on this side of the argument. I'd like to read more on this position, do you have any links?

But somebody has to exert downward pressure on healthcare costs, and it sure isn't going to be hospitals, physicians or insurance companies, who make more money with every unnecessary procedure and test. The consumer certainly isn't, as long as he (fallaciously) thinks somebody else is paying for it.

[maytag]

Bernie, surely you understand that the reason there is so much unpaid debt for healthcare in your state is simply because you allow it? It is an entitlement. You do realize, don't you, that a significant number of hospital visits would magically no longer be required if there were a chance that person would need to pay for it. But as long as it's free... well... you know.
I say bill those people. Setup a payment plan. Get 'em on track.

Not to drag religion into it, but Mitt's church has a benevolent arm that has discovered a way to make this work. You may have noticed in National news recently that the Red Cross just joined in a strategic partnership with them to be able to accomplish more good throughout the world. But what many have called the "perfect welfare program" works on a "you earn it" basis. When his church gives subsistence to members, be it cash or other "in kind" assistance, they are then asked to work in one of their facilities, or help in another way in which they are capable.

Why can't we require the same of citizens? Why should we treat the unfortunate as if they are unable? If they truly ARE incapable of doing for themselves (as some VERY FEW people are) then let's help them. But everyone should be paying their own way. Somehow.

Bernie, you'll never, ever convince me that more government is the right answer to ANY issue. History has taught us otherwise. Again: why do you want the government to do for you what you should do for yourself? Do you not see how condescending and insulting that is? The suggestion that we need this sort of program for the "lower-class" denies their own ability to do for themselves, and to get themselves out of their plight. I would rather empower them, by giving them the opportunity to earn their own way.

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach him to fish, he eats for a lifetime.

[CajunMike]

You've got me there; I don't have any of your expertise on this side of the argument. I'd like to read more on this position, do you have any links.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361020/

Bernie, this is an article about the effects of changes to nursing home Mcr payments on the care provided but the early part of the article gives some background on the industry itself. I worked for a company in 1999 that had 7 nursing homes. They all filed chapter 7 within 2 years of the payment changes. The article doesn't really tell the whole story but several large nursing home providers went belly up. Medicare created the policies that enabled the increased reimbursement in the first place. Then in 1999 they took a machete to it and crippled the industry for about 4 years. It still has not fully recovered and the homes that did escape bankruptcy had to rely on increased state reimbursement. I don't need to go into where the states get subsidies from. Although this was somewhat extreme it typifies what the gov is capable of doing with the stroke of a pen. Imagine if they controlled the entire industry.

[TX82FIAT]

I should have been more clear. State and local gov have made difficult decisions. I'd like to clarify now. When has the federal government made such austerity measures.

[RRoller123]

The Federal government generally screws up most things it fiddles with. Why on Earth would we give them the entire HC industry?

[Daniel]

But what many have called the "perfect welfare program" works on a "you earn it" basis. When his church gives subsistence to members, be it cash or other "in kind" assistance, they are then asked to work in one of their facilities, or help in another way in which they are capable.

Why can't we require the same of citizens? Why should we treat the unfortunate as if they are unable? If they truly ARE incapable of doing for themselves (as some VERY FEW people are) then let's help them. But everyone should be paying their own way. Somehow.

I think you just opened another topic or should i say blew it wide open ! the welfare program should use a system
like this to stop enabling people to get by on welfare who can work but choose not to. I understand hitting
hard times and needing some help till you get back on your feet but multitudes of people are just abusing this system.

A lot of you are pointing out some interesting facts and angles on these topics and I find it interesting how this
posting has snow balled.

My take on the HC issue (not that I'm well versed in this field) is coming from a general sense, if we had one
Health Care Union, Organization, Government controlled, Company or otherwise no matter what it's a bad ideal
to force all of us into a single system. I've heard a lot of horror stories about people waiting long durations of
time for procedures to take place or were on some kind of waiting list in Canada's Medical system. I've also
heard good things about there system. I'm not there to experience first hand how Canada handles Health care.
Maybe the people who complain about it are just the few unforchanet stories that get air play / broadcast
on radio or TV.

I'm all for reforming our Health Care system but I want a solid plan with good structure and accountability
without pushing quality by the wayside. I think the point Dan made about someone must pay at least something
in order to receive a service is a good ideal. This would keep the people who are just needing attention from
making bogus trips to the hospital. The reason I bring this up is a few friends of mine work for the LA Fire
Department and they have shared stories with me about some people who called 911 repeatedly over the years
and nothing was wrong with them. At the same time I would feel bad for someone who couldn't afford a
doctors visit and truly needed medical care. I suppose there isn't a simple solution to all of this since the
complexity is so great.

[TX82FIAT]

The power to govern the daily lives of the people in the U.S. really lies on a state and local basis. If a state like Maryland puts something out to a vote by the citizens of that state such as a helath car program and the people vote for it then I have no issue. It is not the federal Governments place to dictate to the people of 50 states they have to purchase a canned one size fits all national health care.

I agree completely that the welfare system should have some work tied to the checks. The interesting point of this is that the processes to enact such a change of the welfare system would need to be a federal process since Welfare is a federal program. As a federal program it is untouchable. This is my point from above. state and local governments have made difficult decisions because they have too. The federal government has not to date. When a state tries to modify a something that is under the Federal Domain such as Immigration with Arizona the hammer comes down quick. you see the Federal Gov only grabs more power. it does not ever let any of this power go. That is why it is so dangerous for the executive branch to have the ability to appoint people to federal agencies like the EPA.

Seriously, the supreme court rules that you can request identification during a routine stop in Arizona. They then say if you stop someone and they are illegal you can not deport them because you are a state. Gurther, unless they have comitrted a crime or are wanted for a crime the federal Goverment will not deport them "don't call us" was the qoute. Finally, the set up a 1-800 number for people to call if they think the police are harrassing people in Arizona when they stop them and ask for identification. Really... our federal Gov just refused to deport people who have entered the country illegally and even went as far as to set up a hot line to represent the interest of illegals over police officers.

If you have entered the United States via illegal menas or have staed in the country beyond your visa time frame then you are not subject to the same rights as a citizen of the country including the protections of the Governemtn we pay taxes too, public education, healthcare. You are entitled to basic human rights observed around the globe.

[Kent124]

If you are truly convinced what a great deal US debt is you should sell everything and buy US treasuries.

That's precisely what governments around the world are doing every day. Ask yourself this, "Why are they buying T-bills with a yield near zero?"

Okay I will, "Kent, why are they buying T-bills with a yield near zero?"

#1: Governments buy T-bills as collateral for a line of credit with the Federal Reserve. (The European public sector is leveraging up in a major way to bail out banks and the Fed is helping Europe so institutions like BoA and the Rockefeller family bank, aka Chase Manhattan, don't have a MF-Global moment.)

#2: Governments, including China, purchase T-bills as a method of controlling their currencies. Control as in a substitute for Bretton-Woods, but also as a method of debasing their currency to spur exports. (Sell the Yen, buy T-bills is a great way to lower an exchange rate in an attempt to spur sales to America.)

#3 The Saudi’s purchase of T-bills, like other countries, is a political decision not an investment decision. (T-bills for the Saud family are like a big debit card for military equipment. Need 84 Boeing F-15SA Eagles? Return $29.4 billion worth of T-bills to the State Department.)