Clutch troubles

[mptreb]

I'm having trouble (again) with the clutch linkage on my 1976 124 spider.

I went through 3 or 4 cables and welded the pedal back together. Then last
summer I welded up the firewall, got a new pedal and reinforced it, and put in a
new cable. Pretty good...for a while.

Last night my wife drove the car and I got a phone call... "come get me, I think
the transmission is broken." She has driven the car home before when the cable
broke on her -- this was something different.

I went and looked at the car -- cable wasn't broken, trans shifted when the car
was off. So far, no big worries. Clutch pedal has waaay too much free travel.
So I adjust the cable and drive it home (~5 miles). Over those 5 miles, the
clutch gets worse again -- again has lots of free travel and doesn't really
disengage the clutch. The cable is adjusted to its limit.

The pedal doesn't look like it's bent; the firewall repair appears to be
holding. The bottom end of the clutch fork moves a lot in all directions --
though I guess that's not really ever held in place all that securely?

After looking around a little bit, I got in the car and pressed the clutch
pedal. Straight to the floor, and the spring on the pedal held it there.

Any ideas what's wrong?

my first two thoughts were that there's a problem with the clutch fork or with
the throwout bearing. Neither particularly cheerful thoughts...

Any ideas? Is it possible to drop the transmission with the engine in place?
(I hate to think about it...)

I appreciate your thoughts on this problem.

Thanks,
Matt

[vandor]

If the firewall is good, then there are only 3 possibilities:
-Pedal bending again
-Clutch cable gone
-Throwout fork bent

I suppose it could be the t/o bearing, but it's very rare for them to go.
I would get a helper and look if the cable moves the fork.

[mptreb]

The cable does move the fork.

Last night I was on my back on the driver's floorboard, looking up at the firewall and pedal while operating the pedal with my hand. Pedal and firewall appear fine.

I will pull the cable tonight and inspect it to see if it's stretched or breaking.

Sadly, that leaves "clutch fork bent" as a possible answer... not happy about that possibility. Does that happen often?

And can I drop the trans with the motor in place, or is it easier to pull the motor (or to pull motor and trans and separate them outside the car, or...???)

Thanks
Matt

[124JOE]

if you cable came loose i have to ask is there a locking nut on the end?
again if your cable came loose you fork my have fell off the ball

get under it and pull if it comes out 2" then thats it
reset the fork on the ball and adjust the cable
use a nut to lock in place

also hows your ground strap by the trans?

[mptreb]

There is a lock nut on the cable, but I will check and see if it has fallen off the ball... any suggestions on how to re-seat it?

Thanks
Matt

[124JOE]

remove the cable then the boot on the tranz the ball is on the other side of the throw out berring
you cant see it but you can feel for it useing the fork"ball socket"


i dont have a pic or i would post it

[manoa matt]

Yes, bent and broken throwout arms have been known to occur, which should be easy to confirm by looking in the rectangular hole where the arm exits the side of the bellhousing. Another possiblity is the throwout arm has a spring steel clip on the opposite side of the arm that holds the throwout arm on the pivot bolt, those springs have been known to break, you may be able to verify it by jiggling on the throwout arm and gauge how the opposite end is attached or not. A final but strange possiblity would be the leading edge of the throwout bearing is being held by the finger springs on the clutch cover plate.

You can drop the trans with the engine still in the car. Remove the three bolts at the rear where the guibo attaches, support the trans and remove the two nuts that hold the rear trans crossmember to the body, remove the three bolts at the bottom of the shifter cup and drop the shifter rod and components out the bottom, remove the 4 bolts that hold the trans and engine together, dissconnect any wiring from the trans switches. Slide it back so the input shaft pulls out of the end of the crankshaft, keep it level during this phase as you don't want to bend the trans input shaft.

[narfire]

Had a camera and trans at the shop.
Pics of what might be the problem.....
pic of what it looks like all together

The bearing and fork removed. See the "ball" the spring clips are supposed to capture.

The fork and clip

a better pic of the ball

because of the bearing I don't know how you can swap a fork without dropping the trans. Might try though
Chris

[mptreb]

Chris, thanks for the pictures. Matt (are you the guy who took my muffler back to Hawaii? Sorry, just an aside.), thanks for the suggestions. I will try to look in the opening in the side of the bellhousing and see what I can see, whether the throwout arm seems attached to the pivot, etc.

Thanks
Matt

[manoa matt]

Matt, yep that was me. I still got it, but not installed yet. My checked bag included a few clothes, a flowmaster muffler, and more Fiat parts, that's how I pack for trips.

You had a hunter green car, but I cant remember if that was your Fiat or didn't you also have a MGB?

[weekend warrior]

You can eliminate alot of problems with a system like this..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/61432614@N ... 989008060/

[mptreb]

Weekend Warrior:
wow -- that looks great. Tig-welded bracket plus a standard hyrdaulic throwout bearing for another application? That would be nice.

Matt:
Both, actually. The 124 is Verde Scuro (dark green) and the MGB (a 1970) is Brooklands Green... a little bit lighter.

I'll probably try to work on the car tomorrow & report back...
Thanks again to all.
Matt