Power Steering for Fiat Spider?

[manoa matt]

The steering box has a greater mechanical advantage over the rack and pinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steering

After reading the differences between the two systems, it appears the box is better for multiple reasons.

[zachmac]

Hi Jeff. Thanks for the feedback. Not sure if their website is of any help, but that is an issue to be addressed.

http://www.ezpowersteering.co.uk/

sjsmt has my apologies as this system would seem to address just about every concenr I raised. Guess I should have read the link first. Might indeed be a first rate way to go for those desiring PS.

[Turbofiat124]

Gotta agree thas PS on a Spider just doesn't make sense. The cars simply do not need it and IMHO would be a worse driver with it. I had a 1970 Jag E-type with factory PS that I converted to a non-power rack and the feedback and road feel was greatly improved without it. Again, I can't see why you would go there but to each his own.

Now a retrofit to a modern rack and pinion setup, that would make sense.

One day while turning the steering wheel on my 131 with the engine not running, I noticed it was not any harder to steer with the engine not running that with it running. I thought, HMMM. After determining that the ratios on the power and non powered 131 racks were the same, I pulled the P/S pump. Then routed a hose from one side of the rack to the other but leaving the reservoir tied into the system because it also lubricates the rack and 131 racks leak and such.

The feel was OK but just wanted to free up some space in the engine compartment and felt like it was just something else to start leaking. I also thought it might conflict with a potential turbo system.

By the way, I have a 1980 Spider, 1987 Yugo and a 1980 Brava. There is virtually no difference in feel between either of these cars and the turning ratio is not much difference. In other words, I'm not sure what the advantage of rack and pinion is over worm and roller. Rack and pinion seems to take up less room in the engine compartment.

Also getting ride of the steering damper and going with the ball bearing unit makes a HUGE difference in the amount of effort to steer. After replacing mine it was like installing power steering. The rubber sweepers in oil filled dampers tend to gum up. I’ve heard of people taking these apart and cleaning them.

[Warren]

SJMST:

Any news on the price of this conversion kit?

[KevAndAndi]

Has anyone installed one of these electric power steering units in his or her car? I recently saw one installed in a classic car (it was a Studebaker Avanti, if I recall correctly) on the "Fantom Works" program on the Velocity Channel.

Though winter came before my wife could drive her Spider for the first time, I strongly suspect that she is going to find in the spring that the steering requires more effort than she would like. If the steering becomes a "deal breaker", then it would be nice to know if this PS unit is a viable option. I'm also curious as to the cost.

[124JOE]

just a thought here

ford makes a electronic ST rack
for its focus. I don't know if it is close
or if it is a no way man
but they are out there

[vandor]

A friend of mine is working on it right now, will see how it turns out.

[DieselSpider]

My wifes Saturn Vue has an early 2004 version of electric power steering and it has little road feel and is very touchy. Makes it harder to stay in your lane on the interstate almost to the point that it will translate even your breathing into a lane change. It takes some getting use to the way it was implemented there so any conversion would have to be better thought out than GM's OEM implementation on the VUE. In contrast the electric power steering system in the new 500 is better balanced so it can be done well. It could end up being a coin toss on adding acceptable electric power steering.

[KevAndAndi]

A friend of mine is working on it right now, will see how it turns out.

Thanks, Csaba. It would be much appreciated if you could update this thread with a report.

[JerryAebi]

Might need to start hitting the weights.

[djape1977]

there's a relatively easy solution to install old school hydraulic power steering into fiat 124

1:lada niva power steering box - bolts right into chacis leg of 124 with no mods, pitman's arm off 124 bolts directly to niva PS box, you only need shorter lower steering coloumn section.



2:fiat 131, 132, argenta oil filter mounting block. it bolts straight into any fiat twincam block in place of your spider's oil filter mount. on that mount is also a mount for power steering pump.

3:131, 132, argenta crankshaft pulley and screw.



bracketry, hoses etc from same fiats

[vandor]

> 2:fiat 131, 132, argenta oil filter mounting block. it bolts straight into any fiat twincam block in place of your spider's oil filter mount. on that mount is also a mount for power steering pump.

Only the 131 was imported to the US, and ones that had PS usually also had A/C. The PS pump was mounted on the exhaust side and the AC compressor and alternator on the intake side. Unfortunately that AC-Alt mount won't work on a Spider, as the alternator would hit the body.
The PS pump mount from the exhaust side could be used on a Spider, if the parts can be found. Most of the 131s died 20+ years ago.

[djape1977]

there you go!
source the parts from europe or south america, make a kit and sell them in US.

amazing what ebay.it turns up sometimes, not to mention google.

in my neck of the woods you don't see 131/132/argenta on the streets anymore, or even in scrapyards, but they're out there if you know where to look for, and even new parts are available.
in my warehouse i have 5-6 mount/pump/pulley assemblies, 10 or so pumps new and used, used and new hoses and bracketry...

[bradartigue]

Before you do all of that just check that the box isn't too tight. You should have about an inch of play in either direction when the car is at rest. If you have much less, or no play, the box is simply too tight. Also the hydraulic dampers are much looser feeling that the replacement rubber bushing type, if you have the replacement type you may want to find a hydraulic model. The condition of the center link and tie rods as well as the tire width all come into play.

I never found a Spider to be very hard to turn but they do take some effort at rest. I had a 91 Alfa with power steering (essentially the same setup as pictured but manufactured by ZF) and it was nice. It was just enough to make at-rest turning easy and made little difference otherwise.

[KevAndAndi]

Before you do all of that just check that the box isn't too tight. You should have about an inch of play in either direction when the car is at rest. If you have much less, or no play, the box is simply too tight. Also the hydraulic dampers are much looser feeling that the replacement rubber bushing type, if you have the replacement type you may want to find a hydraulic model. The condition of the center link and tie rods as well as the tire width all come into play.

I never found a Spider to be very hard to turn but they do take some effort at rest. I had a 91 Alfa with power steering (essentially the same setup as pictured but manufactured by ZF) and it was nice. It was just enough to make at-rest turning easy and made little difference otherwise.

In a nutshell, how does one go about making the box less tight?