Power Steering for Fiat Spider?

[sjmst]

Now, I know the purists may poo poo it, but I am looking into this.
It seems PS can be retrofitted into our Spiders. I think that would be great.

I am checking into pricing.
http://www.ezpowersteering.co.uk/

[katsi]

HMM, you may want to check you steering box. You may have your gears too tight if you are thinking about power steering. The steering shouldn't be much more resistant than if you did have power steering. Or, maybe mine is just too easy.

[sjmst]

HMM, you may want to check you steering box. You may have your gears too tight if you are thinking about power steering. The steering shouldn't be much more resistant than if you did have power steering. Or, maybe mine is just too easy.

LOL. Nope just like power steering...purist.

[zachmac]

Gotta agree thas PS on a Spider just doesn't make sense. The cars simply do not need it and IMHO would be a worse driver with it. I had a 1970 Jag E-type with factory PS that I converted to a non-power rack and the feedback and road feel was greatly improved without it. Again, I can't see why you would go there but to each his own.

Now a retrofit to a modern rack and pinion setup, that would make sense.

[MrWampus]

This is an interesting post because I have to say, the mistress is extremely heavy feeling when I'm manuvering in a parking lot. I feel like I have to really manhandle the wheel to turn her into a space. However when I'm going at any pace at all, say above 20, she becomes light as a feather. Is there anything I can do about that? I always just assumed it was the nature of the beast. Oh, and I just have the 14" stock turbo wheels with average Tiger Paw tires.

[sjmst]

What’s nice about this is it increases the driving pleasure of those who decide to put it in. It does this by making maneuvering at slow speeds fun and easy. That is what it was like in my 91 Alfa Spider. I really enjoyed that, and once underway it handled just as nicely as my unassisted Fiat Spider.
It doesn’t change the look of the car one bit. Only factor will be cost.
And as for those who like the low speed high resistance, leave your car as is and enjoy!

[Fi8spider]

Ok I'm a purist over here put not enough to disagree with what sjmst has put forward.
Each to their own.

I've never done it before but here are my thoughts.

You need to look at the components involved and immediately I think towards rack and pinion.

If you were just looking for a R&P non PS conversion well then it's well documented that a rack from a 131 will fit with the right mods done to the crossmember to have it mounted there. Personally I hate them in Spiders as the steering shaft coming from the steering wheel messes with the room your feet have to move between the brake and clutch pedal..( I speak from RHD experience but I cant imagine the problem being any different in LHD).

So rack and pinion I'd say would need to be off something LIKE off an alfa GTV6 or 75 or 90 or something that would mount similar to a Fiat 131 Rack.

Next would be the power steering pump. The 132 2000 came out with power steering as did the Argentas so the braketry, pump and pulleys could be used here. You have to look into mounting points on the block to find out if they would go on your 2000 but I cant see why not. You may have to move the alternator and copy the 132 2000 set up.( BTW They had a power steering box which unfortunately is configured differently to a 124 steering box and can't be mounted in the spider, so you can discount that as a solution for a PS box.).

Good topic and I'd like to hear more on it.

[katsi]

the mistress is extremely heavy feeling when I'm manuvering in a parking lot. I feel like I have to really manhandle the wheel to turn her into a space.

I know that my steering is a tad loose and needs an adjustment to tighten up the wheel; but, mine turnes with ease even at a stand still. True, I am running smaller tiers because of the 13" Chromadoras. So, that might be helping a bit. But still, she truns as easially as my BMW daily driver in a parking lot - and that car is a joy to drive. You might have your steering box adjust too tightly or maybe something else. I dunno?

[sjmst]

Thanks for the comments. As I understand it, the unit is electric and mounts under the dash, and is speed sensitive. I think only Pininfarina Spider had rack and pinion, and then maybe only the rare 85 model?
I wrote to the company for more info and will pass along what I learn. It would have to be affordable. Obviously my Spider is not my daily driver and the steering effort is not terrible. It would be a good add on at the right price.

[wikkid]

I think only Pininfarina Spider had rack and pinion, and then maybe only the rare 85 model?

True.

[zachmac]

What’s nice about this is it increases the driving pleasure of those who decide to put it in. It does this by making maneuvering at slow speeds fun and easy. That is what it was like in my 91 Alfa Spider. I really enjoyed that, and once underway it handled just as nicely as my unassisted Fiat Spider

I'm not so sure your assumption about handling once under way with PS is correct. One of the reasons I swapped out the factory PS unit on my 1970 Jaguar E-type to a non PS unit was because the PS was overboosted at speed and made the car very twitchy. Coming up with the exact balance of assist to improve low speed turning AND retaining reasonable high speed rate of response is exactly what keeps suspension engineers up at night. A system from a similar weight front engine / rear wheel drive car with similar spring rates, track, alignment specs. and wheel base should be a candiate but most PS systems are NOT adjustable with regard to valving and boost ratios. However, an electric unit like what street rodders use may be?

[sjmst]

Hi Jeff. Thanks for the feedback. Not sure if their website is of any help, but that is an issue to be addressed.

http://www.ezpowersteering.co.uk/

[kmead]

Some upper body exercise might be in order for some of us

Depending on the rims one has, the steering effort can vary considerably. My Coupe has the slotted mags from 1970 which have an odd offset. As a result when turned the wheels are describing a notable arc and the effort to turn them is more than one might expect.

I would look at the whole system not just adding power assistance. Your arms and shoulders are part of that system...

[manoa matt]

There should not be a difference in effort required to turn the wheels with a steering box vs. rack and pinion. If anything, gearing in the steering box could make the effort slightly less. They are simply two different designs that achieve the same result.

If your steering is difficult try these first:
1. properly inflated tires (slightly overinflated makes it even easier)
2. oil in the steering idler and steering box (or new bushings in the idler if that type)
3. good ball joints, tie rod ends, and center link (with proper lubrication)
4. properly adjusted steering box
5. Check and lube the bearings in the steering column and universal joints in the articulated linkage.

Wide tires and rims with too much offset will make the steering difficult. A smaller diameter "sport" steering wheel will also require more effort as the "torque arm" is shorter.

One of the most important things to remember: It's a 30+ year old car and they drive differently than a modern car that practically drives itself, YOU have to drive the car. You have to understand the mechanics of the car, and adapt your driving style to suit. If you try to turn the wheels with the car stationary you put a lot of stress on the gears in the steering box and the idler mounting points. Make it a point to have the car move a few inches forward or rearward when turning the steering wheel and it will be much easier.

A few years ago I used to work on this lady's spider. She wanted to sell the car but lost two potential buyers because: "the steering was to dificult." Her tire pressure was 16psi. I pumped them up to 26-28psi and you could turn the wheel with one finger.

[vandor]

>There should not be a difference in effort required to turn the wheels with a steering box vs. rack and pinion.

This quote comes to mind; "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice... "

One would think that it does not matter what type of steering box it is, as long as the ratio is the same, but my experience with Fiats, Alfas, and Volvos, is that the manual steering rack requires less effort than a manual steering box.

BTW, this is an electric PS system, so there are no hydraulics. It can be turned off when not needed, to completely restore the PS-free feel.

While I would not want PS on my own car, I have several friends who are getting to an age where they would have difficulty parking a Spider in a tight spot. I have also heard many complaints from women about how heavy the Spider's steering is, so guys who'd like their S.O. to drive the Spider more may consider it.

Steering effort is greatly influenced by the type of tires used. I was surprised that semi-autocross tires made the steering easier - likely because they had stiffer sidewalls. Tire pressures also make a huge difference.