Budget 2.0 (2L) build

[BEEK]

WOW it appears as those are the pistons from the titanic! sorry to see and hear of this situation.

[124ADDHE]

Mario Basta of Mario Ricambi parts (Ontario) hooked me up with the 1.6 beta pistons, they apparently yield around 10-1 and were around $400, this was a few years ago, just ask for the high compression pistons for your block, I had to wait a few weeks, they are made by MAHLE.

[maytag]

Well... A bit of a revival for this thread;
Today I completed the match-balancing of the pistons and rods. I built a fixture that allowed me to weigh the rods ends individually, and independantly of each other. So they all weigh the same (to the gram) but just as importantly, they carry their weight distributed the same as the others.
And with the pistons all equal in weight now as well, the assemblies will all weigh the same.

Next I will be measuring the length of each rod, center of bore to center of pin, and compare. I will be measuring the pistons the same way (center of pin to top of piston) and then match them all up so the overall assemblies are as close to identical as possible.

So far I have been surprised at how far out they have been, one to the next. I had to pull 12 grams out of one piston, and 20 off of one of the rods.

I need to order my aluminum flywheel and then I can take it all in to my machinist.


Finally some progress though!

Finally

[fiatfactory]

.

[maytag]

Dan,

did you finally get any joy from the USPS with your damaged goods claim?

SteveC

Steve, I'm not sure why you chose this moment, or this thread to pop back up. I am going to remain civil in this public forum, but if you really want to know how I feel, send me a PM and I'll ignore it for awhile before finally blasting ya.

I don't know what you are hoping to accomplish with your above post. You KNOW I did not get "any joy".... because YOU DID NOT DO what was required to make the claim. USPS cannot give me satisfaction on an insurance policy issued by the Australian Post.

To further complicate and exacerbate things, you sold me JUNK. Not only were those pistons damaged, but they were WRONG. the pin-bores were significantly larger than the stock pin-bores. that's measured. Would've required MORE machine-work. the Pistons themselves were all over the place in CH; not a single-one measured-out the same as any of the others. that's very poor Q/C. the stock pistons I removed from the motor were closer to each other than yours were! And when I cc'd the valve-reliefs I discovered your math was WRONG. Funny thing, Math. I hate it. I suck at it. But I didn't have an agenda to sell junk while I was doing it.... you were far too conservative on your dish volume as well. I get it, you wanted me to buy 'em.... so why would you tell me the truth? Why would you tell me that I would end-up with something closer to 8.7:1 CR?

You hosed me, Steve. You cost me a LOT of time, and a LOT of money as well. So far, even in disagreements, I can say that I would consider everyone on this forum to be my "friend" (maybe "Online Friend" is more applicable). But Steve, You are not my friend, and I would appreciate you refraining from posting in this thread about my motor. It's been hijacked enough. I will not be drawn into a longer debate about what is or isn't with you. I spent waaaay too much time and energy on that once already, for MONTHS. I've moved-on. I should think it would be best if you do too.

[131]

Today I completed the match-balancing of the pistons and rods.

So what pistons did you get hold of to continue the build?

Cheers,

Mick.

[fiatfactory]

You KNOW I did not get "any joy".... because YOU DID NOT DO what was required to make the claim. USPS cannot give me satisfaction on an insurance policy issued by the Australian Post.

Actually I did do what was required, Australia post have all the information, I filled out the claim form within a week of hearing of your misfortune. I've sent many emails and PM's to you enquiring how the claim was going, which you haven't replied to...

To further complicate and exacerbate things, you sold me JUNK. Not only were those pistons damaged, but they were WRONG. the pin-bores were significantly larger than the stock pin-bores. that's measured. Would've required MORE machine-work.

They are a stock 22mm Fiat piston pin size... the rods use the same small end bushing as most other Fiats with a FFG, so I would suggest you've measured wrong....

the Pistons themselves were all over the place in CH; not a single-one measured-out the same as any of the others. that's very poor Q/C. the stock pistons I removed from the motor were closer to each other than yours were! And when I cc'd the valve-reliefs I discovered your math was WRONG. Funny thing, Math. I hate it. I suck at it. But I didn't have an agenda to sell junk while I was doing it.... you were far too conservative on your dish volume as well. I get it, you wanted me to buy 'em.... so why would you tell me the truth? Why would you tell me that I would end-up with something closer to 8.7:1 CR?

well that's just crap...with a capital C... I used a set of these pistons in a build myself, and the CR was precisely as I calculated...so you must suck at math really bad

You hosed me, Steve. You cost me a LOT of time, and a LOT of money as well. So far, even in disagreements, I can say that I would consider everyone on this forum to be my "friend" (maybe "Online Friend" is more applicable). But Steve, You are not my friend, and I would appreciate you refraining from posting in this thread about my motor. It's been hijacked enough. I will not be drawn into a longer debate about what is or isn't with you. I spent waaaay too much time and energy on that once already, for MONTHS. I've moved-on. I should think it would be best if you do too.

All the parts left my end in perfect condition, you even said I packaged them really well... hardly my fault if they got damaged in transit, that is entirely out of my control... so I haven't hosed you at all... if you took the time to pursue the claim you would get your compensation from USPS and Australia post...that's what insurance is for.

Pistons you purchased as replacements must be super high quality if there is a 12 gram variance in weight...good luck with your build .

SteveC

[fiat218]

did u tell him thanks lol

[maytag]

Steve, based on the PM traffic, it seems pretty clear that everyone here understands your game.... so as I said, I'm not going to spend any time arguing the points with you. (if you only knew how far off the weights were on the pistons you sent me... )

It's easy to post blatant lies (at least you make it LOOK easy... for me personally I think my scruples would get in the way)... so let's let it lie, huh?

Mark, can you lock this thread? I'm a guy who usually can't stop himself from trying to have the last word... so just save me from myself, will ya?

I'll start a new thread for my build.

[124ADDHE]

Shit happens and it sucks, move on; there is probably a lot of truth to both sides. I know Steve C. has some excellent knowledge that we can all benefit from. It really is a shame when our orders get ruined and that insurance we pay for is nearly impossible to get anything from; I bought some top quality Bavarian Lederhosen, please tell me why it too 8 weeks to get here and it was messed up, Canada Post did f-all for me, I am so fortunate that the manufacture had the funding to send me more Lederhosen whilst the claims were dealt with (over a year now and I still have not heard from Canada Post in 3 months!).

[anicoletti]

I live in Brazil and my 124 has a 1.8 132AC1 engine. Can you send me the article? Thank you very much.

Maytag,
Jon Logan (Midwest124.com) had an excellent write up on this in the Summer 04 edition of Ricambi, the bi-monthly publication of FLU. In the article he calculated and compared the Static compresson ratio of all combinations of stock 2L pistons, stock 1.8 pistons, Kobenschmidt pistons (1.6mm domes), Mondial pistons with 4.5mm dome, Mondial pistons with 8mm domes, 2L and 1.8L heads, and 2L and 1.8L blocks. You may be able to get reprints from him or FLU, or I could make a copy of the article to send to you.

Here is a list of his calculated compression ratio results:

2 Liter Block and Head and Stock 2L Pistons---- 8.1
2 Liter Block and Head and Stock 1.8L Pistons---- 8.17
2 Liter Block and Head and 1.6mm Dome Pistons---- 8.85
2 Liter Block and Head and 4.5mm Dome Pistons---- 9.93
2 Liter Block and Head and 8mm Dome Pistons---- 10.75
2 Liter Block, 1.8L Head and Stock 2L Pistons---- 8.53
2 Liter Block, 1.8L Head and 1.8L Pistons---- 8.61
2 Liter Block, 1.8L Head, 1.6mm Dome Pistons---- 9.37
2 Liter Block, 1.8L Head, 4.5mm Dome Pistons---- 10.62
2 Liter Block, 1.8L Head, 8mm Dome Pistons---- 11.57
1.8 Liter Block and Head, Stock 1.8L Pistons---- 8
1.8 Liter Block and Head, Stock 2L Pistons---- 7.93
1.8 Liter Block and Head, 1.6mm Dome Pistons---- 8.75
1.8 Liter Block and Head, 4.5mm Dome Pistons---- 9.96
1.8 Liter Block and Head, 8mm Dome Pistons---- 10.91
1.8 Liter Block, 2L Head, Stock 1.8L Pistons---- 7.58
1.8 Liter Block, 2L Head, Stock 2L Pistons---- 7.51
1.8 Liter Block, 2L Head, 1.6mm Dome Pistons---- 8.24
1.8 Liter Block, 2L Head, 4.5mm Dome Pistons---- 9.29
1.8 Liter Block, 2L Head, 8mm Dome Pistons---- 10.1

Of course, if you have modified combustion chambers, shaved heads, decked engine block, different thickness head gasket, etc. then the numbers will be somewhat different. His article includes the dimensions for his components.

Stan

[Kevin1]

Anicoletti, here you go:
https://www.fiatclubamerica.com/wp-cont ... 2004-3.pdf

[ScoopMan]

Wow, some very interesting info in this thread. Some unfortunate ugliness too.

[BammBamm]

Why do twin carbs for your build rather than FI?