uneven tire wear

[majicwrench]

Wise man going to another shop.
Ball joints are, like the name implies, just a ball and socket joint. In most of them their is also a big spring. Spring allows you to hit bumps etc without forcing metal against metal every time in BJ. Also spring allows for some wear, as it continues to push up on "ball" part of joint into the "socket" part.
What all this means is that if you unload the joint, it will appear loose, as you can compress the spring, thus making it look like BJ is bad. Shops see that play and sell zillions of BJs. If they would check the new ones when installed, they would see the same amount of play.
I'm sure there are some wonderful competent alignment shops around, but there are also a lot that will sell you much much more than you need every time. We have one locally that will give you the Big Scare..." oh you came in just in time, this isn't safe to drive...everything is going to fall apart...it's going to be $$$$......good thing you came in".

LIke I said, I have seen more upper BJs bad on Fiats, but to be honest, I don't see a whole lot of Fiats! Good luck with new shop and let us know what they say.
Easy test for upper BJ,,,, methinks on my 72 even with car on ground you could grab tire at top and move it in and out fairly easily. Obviosly, it SHOULD NOT move in and out. Try it and see. Replacing my upper BJs fixed my slightly neg camber just that fast.
Keith

[v6spider]

Keith may have a point with the upper balljoint. However I seem to recall there has been a string of balljoints that we're poorly manufactured out there for the spider...you may have bought some of those... also a square is not an accurate way to measure camber as the tire buldges out at the bottom. Better way is to measure from the bottom of the rim and then the top. Best way and easiest way is with the protractor level just place the level on the front side of the rim and the protractor level will read the angle in degrees. I suggest taking a reading at the front of the rim and at the back and then taking the average....

Rob

[azruss]

wow! if your caster is out an inch, you have worse problems than a couple of sloppy ball joints. If you are concerned about the shock towers flexing, measure the distance between the top of the 2 shocks with the car on the ground and jacked up a bit using a floor jack in the middle of the cross member. do both sides look like they have the same caster.
smart to take it to another shop. sounds like the first shop thinks they have a fish on the line.

[v6spider]

Caster and camber is measured by degrees ... toe is the only one that is measured by inches or millimeters perse'...its either poor alignment, bad ball joints, or collapsing shock towers. If you can rule out balljoints then the other two become apparent ... get several opinions from different shops if your not comfortable checking it yourself..
I hope you find it Matt ...

[81SPIDERMATT]

ok... lower ball joints have some play but according to the shop it will not be enough to make up for the negative camber when fixed..... no cracks anywhere.... bolts holding on the crossmember were loose... after tightening it made some difference.... couple of questions.... could the cross member being loose some how have stretched or bowed??? in measuring the distance between shocks with weight and without weight is that the bottom of the shock???.... it was recomended by the shop to go where they have a frame machine and bend the frame out past the point to positive camber then adjust??? that just does not sound right..... how would collapsing shock towers be repaired.... again i ask is there a cross brace that can be used to hold back towers from collapsing more or be held in place when fixed.... i am at a loss as to what to do next... recommendations on a better ball joint please and location to purchase.... going ahead and doing the tie rod ends and new sleeves at recommendation of shop

is there an offset ball joint for the uppers to push out spindles... or a shim that would do the same thing
have made the decision to do whatever is needed.... damn car made me love her....i think i will call her Sophia

[v6spider]

Everything sounds reasonable to me... I would ask the frame shop what they recommend to prevent it from going back to the same issue. On my spider I was thinking about running some square tubing along behind where the shock towers mount at the top from the firewall all the way to the radiator support and welding it in solidly all the way across...

Just a thought...

Rob

[81SPIDERMATT]

ok i feel much better after talking to the frame shop.... we are meeting next week to set up car and take some measurments and build a game plan....thanks so much for all the input.... time to do some research on better ball joints.... i will post best attempt from alignment shop and any info i get from frame shop.(before and afters)... he said he did not know if he had original specs for frame in computer at shop ... but with alignment specs and experiance he will be able to get the car back to where it should be.... also will be checking for fatigued metal and repairing if needed.... very excited...... but marks aluminum radiator will have to wait a little longer

[81SPIDERMATT]

any help locating moog upper ball joint vendor would be helpful.... everyone has the lowers ... cant find the uppers.... can i use a different brand for the top.... wanting to replace the ones i just put in because i figure if the bottom ones were bad top ones are not far behind

[81SPIDERMATT]

also are there better brands of tie rod ends or should i go with whatever iap is sending me... ( great company but failed me on the ball joints)... hope

[majicwrench]

I would doubt that the BJ's IAP sold you are bad. See my previous post about BJ construction.

[81SPIDERMATT]

ok... been a while ..life gets in the way .... car went to the frame shop... car is just sagging a bit... a few hours on the frame machine and it is back to specs... found a small crack... fabricated a piece... welded and done... before going into the shop replaced Upper and lower ball joints... uppers looked great but did them any way both lowers were loose .. one worse than the other... while i was under there got the iap sport springs... decided to go bumperless..new high preformance tires (tire rack 300 bucks to the door).. new alignment after the work ... man what a difference .... as it should be.... thought my car was awesome before... but now my car thinks so too... have about 1000 miles on it and tires still look brand new.... car handles like it is on rails..... THANK YOU TO EVERYONE FOR WORDS OF ADVICE AND ENCOURAGEMENT