Front seal on Differential help needed!
Front seal on Differential help needed!
These are the steps I took to replace the front seal on the differential. I need an experts opinion though.
The first steps I took were to keep the front spindle from moving. I fastened it to angle iron and screwed it to a block.
I made marks to line everything up so it all went on the same way. I even put a mark on the socket to make it easier. I then stepped torqued the nut to find out what torque it was at. It started turning about 75' lbs. Then I decided to count backwards how many turns it would take to get it off. I made a mark relevant to it coming off. I made a bent piece of steel to help remove the seal. I used a pair of pliers and hammer and pulled it off. I used a piece of pipe about the same diameter to the seal and started installing it. It worked somewhat until I got to the housing. Then I used the old seal and cut a slit in it. It worked great. How far should the seal go in? Doesn't it bottom out? I think the new one is a little farther in than the last one. I put the spindle back on and the washer. I made sure nothing turned and everything is lined up. I counted the turns putting the nut back on starting at the same position as it came off.
It was 11 3/4 turns. Now the lines are all lined up so I decided to see where the nut would be a 75' lbs. As you can see in the pic it was about a little less than 1/4 turn to the right. Then I thought maybe it turned a little when finding the torque. So I decided to try 72' lbs. It took the nut back to the same place 75' lbs did. Which should I go with? The turns or the torque?
The first steps I took were to keep the front spindle from moving. I fastened it to angle iron and screwed it to a block.
I made marks to line everything up so it all went on the same way. I even put a mark on the socket to make it easier. I then stepped torqued the nut to find out what torque it was at. It started turning about 75' lbs. Then I decided to count backwards how many turns it would take to get it off. I made a mark relevant to it coming off. I made a bent piece of steel to help remove the seal. I used a pair of pliers and hammer and pulled it off. I used a piece of pipe about the same diameter to the seal and started installing it. It worked somewhat until I got to the housing. Then I used the old seal and cut a slit in it. It worked great. How far should the seal go in? Doesn't it bottom out? I think the new one is a little farther in than the last one. I put the spindle back on and the washer. I made sure nothing turned and everything is lined up. I counted the turns putting the nut back on starting at the same position as it came off.
It was 11 3/4 turns. Now the lines are all lined up so I decided to see where the nut would be a 75' lbs. As you can see in the pic it was about a little less than 1/4 turn to the right. Then I thought maybe it turned a little when finding the torque. So I decided to try 72' lbs. It took the nut back to the same place 75' lbs did. Which should I go with? The turns or the torque?
- 124JOE
- Posts: 3141
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:11 pm
- Your car is a: 1978 124 fiat spider sport 1800
- Location: SO. WI
Re: Front seal on Differential help needed!
the old one was bottomed out /so tap it down
tourq
tourq
when you do everything correct people arent sure youve done anything at all (futurama)
ul1joe@yahoo.com 124joe@gmail.com
ul1joe@yahoo.com 124joe@gmail.com
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- Patron 2022
- Posts: 1807
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- Your car is a: 1982 Spider hers 1972 Spider his
- Location: Hydesville, CA (NorCal)
Re: Front seal on Differential help needed!
Brady,
I tried to look at the Mirafiori archives and found a bunch of posts. I'll let you decide who you want to believe, but from what I read it sounds like count the threads/turns and maybe a tiny bit more. If you got it tighter than it was, then the crush sleeve might have crushed more?
http://archive.mirafiori.com/search.php ... e=msgframe
I tried to look at the Mirafiori archives and found a bunch of posts. I'll let you decide who you want to believe, but from what I read it sounds like count the threads/turns and maybe a tiny bit more. If you got it tighter than it was, then the crush sleeve might have crushed more?
http://archive.mirafiori.com/search.php ... e=msgframe
Trey
1982 SPIDER 2000, 1964 CHEVYII, 1969 Chevy Nova, 2005 DODGE RAM, 1988 Jeep Comanche
1972 Spider, 78 Spider rat racer 57 f-100,
1982 SPIDER 2000, 1964 CHEVYII, 1969 Chevy Nova, 2005 DODGE RAM, 1988 Jeep Comanche
1972 Spider, 78 Spider rat racer 57 f-100,
Re: Front seal on Differential help needed!
I have the axles out. I thought I'd try spinning the front and it is clicking a couple times. I don't know if it's because the axles are out or maybe because there's no fluid inside or what. It sounds like the gears inside are loose or something of the like. I don't think the seal is hitting. It would click more. Figures something has to go wrong.
Re: Front seal on Differential help needed!
The spider gears are kind of just floating around in there until you put the axles in, they aren't exactly lined up in there until you do.
Re: Front seal on Differential help needed!
Yup, the spider gears are probably clicking as you are turning things, like was said they are just floating around without the axles.
As far as that pinion nut, a few lb of torque won't make any diff. If you can move the pinion shaft forward/backwards, it ain't tight enough. If it turns easily by hand, it is probably fine. As you tighten that nut, you are crushing a collapsable sleeve, and that is how it adjusts the preload on the bearings.
I would think having it 1/4 turn more than original would be fine.
The seal normally would go flush with the housing.
As far as that pinion nut, a few lb of torque won't make any diff. If you can move the pinion shaft forward/backwards, it ain't tight enough. If it turns easily by hand, it is probably fine. As you tighten that nut, you are crushing a collapsable sleeve, and that is how it adjusts the preload on the bearings.
I would think having it 1/4 turn more than original would be fine.
The seal normally would go flush with the housing.
Re: Front seal on Differential help needed!
I put the axles in and filled the pumpkin with oil and it sounds great so far.
Re: Front seal on Differential help needed!
I fought the pinion seal leak for years and numerous seal changes, untill I finally realized that it wasn't the seal leaking, but rather the leaking oil was traveling down the splines between the pinion shaft and the pinion flange. The fix was to take it apart far enough to clean the splines (easier if the seal is out of the way, so new seal), then used a good RTV sealant on the splines and the washer and nut holding the pinion flange in place. I used a new crush sleeve and torqued it properly to crush, using a similar jig to hold the flange as you did. Hasn't leaked any since. You could probably do just as well with reusing the old crush sleeve as you did, but I went ahead and replaced it anyway.
Your rebuilt parts sure look purdy!
Alvon
Your rebuilt parts sure look purdy!
Alvon
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- Your car is a: 1979 Pininfarina 2000
- Location: Cleveland Ohio USA
Re: Front seal on Differential help needed!
You did everything I did except for using a new crush sleeve. I did not torque it down with the new crush sleeve but counted turns and lined up marks as you did. It runs smooth by hand and sounds fine at speeds.
I wish mine looked like yours!
I wish mine looked like yours!
- manoa matt
- Posts: 3442
- Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:28 pm
- Your car is a: 1978 Fiat 124 Spider 1800
- Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Re: Front seal on Differential help needed!
As Alvon stated the oil will leak past the splines. It will get into the cavity between the two flanges and seep out the seam. I also sealed that interface with RTV or a homemade paper gasket. I don't know what the engineers were thinking on that design. The oil seal should have rode on the pinion shaft itself before the splines and not the separate flange piece.
Brady, I also have a set of "Kentucky jack stands"
Brady, I also have a set of "Kentucky jack stands"
Re: Front seal on Differential help needed!
I wish I would have known this before putting it back on the car. How is it possible to fill the pumpkin without taking it off? The fill hole is on the side.
Re: Front seal on Differential help needed!
Buy a pump style bottle of gear oil. thyen look like the one in this picture:
http://pennfeld.com/lowerunitgearoilpump.html
http://pennfeld.com/lowerunitgearoilpump.html