Hella ECE or Vision Plus

[surfingfreeman]

Got the Greg smith relay kit, now ready to get serious about headlights, also what bulbs? Thanks
Mike

[spiderrey]

Love my Hellas

[donm]

Before you get new lights check out the Daniel Stern website which has some eye opening info about automotive lighting. And if you don't mind spending a few bucks, order up some E-code headlights instead of the DOT sanctioned lights we're limited to in North America. Pricey, but I liked them so much I put them on my daily driver, too.

The Hella headlights sold by places like IAP are halogen but the're not E-code.

Don

[maytag]

I just converted mine to HID. Draws fewer amps and is significantly brighter. Mine are a bright-white, and have the added benefit of having turn-signals built-in...... facilitating the bumper removal.

[baltobernie]

For those of you considering converting your H4 headlights to HID:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVuSSdZN ... re=related

[Adam]

Hey Mike,

Did you install your headlight relay yet? I found mine to be very straight forward!

[maytag]

For those of you considering converting your H4 headlights to HID:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVuSSdZN ... re=related

Bernie, let's be fair here: that's a load of bollocks.

The simple fact is that anyone who can aim headlights can take care of the beam height. As for the beam pattern and spread, that is determined by the optics of the headlamp, not the lamp/filament producing the light. If you are replacing with a lamp that is in the same position (depth) relative to the headlamp shell, then you get the same beam pattern and spread. Period.

I didn't measure the light before the conversion, so I cannot quantify it. But the truth is that prior to the conversion I found it very, very easy to overdrive the headlights. Now I don't. They are not only brighter but are much better at rendering colors as well. Not to mention they draw significantly less power than their counterparts.

Do you remember a fellow by the name of Ralph Nader?

[kmead]

Not to be unkind, it is not bullocks. Every "kit" I have seen offers no way of ensuring a cutoff of the beam or other means of ensuring minimal glare to oncoming drivers which is the issue they are highlighting.

Factory solutions have a shutter and a specifically designed reflector solution. I can assure you the factory solutions would not have these things if they were not needed as they look at the cost of things down to the penny (or less).

No doubt you were overdriving your lights, all lights have a max speed related to them as the beam can only reach so far with sufficient rendering of details relative to your stopping distance.

Some dark night have someone driver your car (bike etc) towards you on "low beam" and then do the same with having them come up behind you and look at your car's shadow on the signs ahead and then come back and tell me its correct. The issue is not the light you are enjoying, (slow down and drive within the limits of your lights) but the effect your lights are having on the other drivers around you.

The point is the reflector these are being placed in was not designed for the way the light is produced nor where the light source is placed in the luminaire thus creating a pattern which has deleterious effects for oncoming drivers and those being followed.

I regularly drive a minivan and have clowns with these kits around me, I end up having to realign my mirrors when they are behind me and have to look away when they are oncoming. Tell me its safe for me and those around me to not be looking at the road watching for deer crossing the road in front of oncoming cars, pedestrians and so on.

If all you did was change out a bulb and put in a arc light in its place you are wrong. If you have retrofitted a a factory system with a shutter and an appropriately designed lens and reflector then more power to you.

[maytag]

kmead:
First, kudos on a well-thougth-out response. However, you have a couple of details wrong. Lighting is my living. It's what I do all day, every day. And one thing that is an undisputed fact: it is the optics, not the lamp that make the light go where it goes (wether right or wrong). And so, as I said, if you have the light-source (lamp) installed in the same location relative to the optics, then your beam pattern will remain the same.

NOW: systems that incorporate a shutter on the lamp are a good point. At this stage, that shutter acts as part of the optics. That shutter is there because you have a non-uniform reflector / bucket and you need to modify the beam with the shutter so that when it hits the "fixed-optics" it gets the desired effect. This is also how you get a hi-lo on a single-element HID: the shutter moves the beam.

And I will absolutely agree, that if all you do is replace a lamp with an HID source and call it good, chances are you'll be pissing-off lots of folks. But if you have replaced with an HID source that positions the lamp in the same place relative to ALL OF THE OPTICS, then you are in fat city. And talking about a round optic with lensed refractors (as our cars have) If your HID source sits just slightly closer to your optics, then your spread becomes narrower, throwing more light forward, but with the same cut-off effects. If it is further away from your optics, then your pattern is wider / taller, and you will have an issue with other drivers, unless you can aim it out of it.

But the way the linked video blankets all "kits" as hazardous is just ridiculous. It follows that age-old train of thought that government agencies must save us all from our own stupidity. Keep following that train and you'll find them taking away your car because it doesn't meet CURRENT road safety standards.

[donm]

You see, guys, this is exactly why e-codes are a better choice rather than mucking about with aftermarket HIDs.

The e-codes have a better lens design with a finer cut off point so as long as they're aimed properly, you get a much better light pattern than DOT lighting with no glare to bother oncoming drivers.

[kbee00]

Good to see some serious debate on lighting. I think we would all agree that it is an issue and no one wants to be blinded by some misguided attempt at "blue" or "HID" lighting. I spent a lot of time and money on different systems – and in the end I spent most of my time looking at factory lighting design. I built up several sets of lights for my Miata (yes, I know, why the hell was I driving a Miata - but it was actually a very nice car) and I will offer up what I learned - so please take this with a grain of salt as this was MY experience.

Design number 1 : replace stock bulbs with a generic ebay "HID" kit. It came with the bulbs, the exciters (transformers really) the cables, and really bad instructions. Cost - $150. Once I figured out how to actually hook it up, it did work. I used the recommended aiming technique - 25ft, flat surface, blah, blah, blah. During the first night time driving test, there was no doubt the lighting was brighter - it also seemed to be "larger". The new light illuminated much higher and wider. And oh yeah, everyone was flashing their lights at me. Obviously oncoming drivers were not happy. So I did some more research and found that the standard reflector buckets are not designed for "HID" bulbs. More digging.

Design number 2: I bought a pair of factory HID headlight assemblies (from an Acura I believe) including the exciters and cables. I took them apart to see what was what. I found a rear facing “real” HID bulb, a very small diameter but long reflector bucket, a small solenoid (more on that) and a little metal "gate" I powered them up in the house and there was a definite horizontal cutoff line. No light above the line. Which is the job of the gate. Then I actuated the solenoid and it moved down (everything is reverse of what you see because of the reflector bucket) and now the cutoff line was gone and there was a nice round light pattern - similiar to what I experienced with the HID kit I bought. Which is why oncoming drivers hated me. With the aftermarket HID kit, it's like the brights are on all the time. There is no control of the light beam. True HID headlights control the beam using the cutoff gate and very sophisticated reflector bucket. Some use two lights –one for regular lights and then add a second standard beam or they will just move the gate to get the total beam. My wife’s Nissan Maxima uses one bulb and has the solenoid to control high and low beams. My Prius (don’t laugh, it is a free company car…..and I get almost 60mpg - so there!!) uses two separate lamps –HID low beam, standard lamp high beam.
Moral of the story. If you want true HID – you HAVE to use HID bulbs and buckets. You CANNOT install HID bulbs into standard reflector buckets. For one, oncoming drivers will hate you, number two, those that actually understand what is going on, will consider you a complete dumba** because they know that you are trying to be cool or are totally stupid and in reality you are the guy that doesn’t get the joke at the party.

Some have said that great lessons don’t come cheap. In my case, this is true. I spent over $1500 converting my car to HID – in the end – there was no reason. The standard lighting was just fine.

Oh yeah – if you are one of the “blue light” freaks. Save your money. Not only does it look ridiculous, but the actual light output is substantially weak. Then again, if we let mother nature take her course….

I hope that has added to the collective knowledge of Fiat owners. With all that being said, I will definitely add HID to my car. There are a few people that can make a set of HID’s that will fit our cars and no one will even know – except the driver. HID’s are here for a reason. They offer much more visibility (safety) and less energy consumption without sacrificing originality of design. Why drive around at night with yellow lights? In my humble opinion – I’d rather live another day to drive my Fiat.

End of rant – my fingers hurt…….

[azygoustoyou]

I saw this thread and thought cool. I was just looking into buying head lights and Hella Vision plus was one I was considering. I saw all the writing you all had given. I thought I was going to get a good answer. Yet no one gave their opinion on them.
The cheapest I could find them at was here;
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLA-002395301/
Has anyone seen them cheaper elsewhere?