Timing or Points Issue?

[Red76]

Hey all,
Sorry I've been off the board for a while. Had to make the move from Daytona to North Carolina. But that's a different story for a different time. Anyway, my poor little Spider almost didn't make the trip. She ran great the first half (actually getting 26+ mpg on the highway) but the got worse as the miles went by. Long story short I found that one of the point sets had lost its gap or was worn enough not to open as the lobes passed under it. I adjusted it (without a gap gague) just enough so she finished the trip. Got to NC and figured might as well change the points and condensers (two of each) while I was in there. Went to install them but I could not tap the starter and get the distributor to stop at the top of the lobes. So I got it as close as I could and then turned the distributor. I gaped both sets of points to 0.016, then turned the distributor back to about where I started. Try to start her and so far all I have got is a massive backfire from the exhaust.
My question, what did I screw up this time?

[maytag]

Well, two places I'd start. First: be sure it's all connected back up properly. I've been known to leave stuff udone and forget about it. just check to be sure you''ve got spark.
And THEN: set your timig marks on the cam / crank and point your rotor where the #1 plug-wire will be when you reinstall the cap.

this will have you close enough to fire right up.

if this doesn't work, there's another issue somewhere that may or may not be related.

[TulsaSpider]

It is easier to rotate the motor by hand to get the point to open to the correct amount.

[mdrburchette]

And THEN: set your timig marks on the cam / crank and point your rotor where the #1 plug-wire will be when you reinstall the cap.

You'll want the rotor to point to the #4 plug wire but unless you pulled the distributor out of the hole to replace your points, this should not be an issue.
It may be time to check the IAP website for information on how to eliminate that second set of points and condenser. It's a way more complicated system than it needs to be.

[dhagood]

it is surprisingly easy to pinch the wire to the rear set of points between the rotor cap and the distributor body, which will short out the wire and make the car very hard to start. once it's started it runs fine, but getting it going can take a lot of cranking.

[Red76]

Think I might have a clue as to where I screwed up. After reading on the dual point set up I found out that the points are a starting set and a running set. I gapped both sets the same way. Top of the cam lobe at 0.016. This leads me to two more questions.

How can you tell which are the starting points and which are the running set?
And
Is there a different way to gap them?

[Red76]

OK, no pinched or scraped wires. So I know thats not an issue.
The distributor is almost exact to where I started and it was not removed. (Dont laugh but Itook a pic ahead of time)
And remember, it ran fairly good before I did the parts swap.

What is the "IAP" website where I might find the answers?

[mdrburchette]

Here you go:
http://www.international-auto.com/fiat- ... ersion.cfm

[Red76]

Dosent quite make sence to me but thats not new, remember I'm a Jeep guy.
Looks to be simple....
If you all hear an east coast detonation.....well it was me. lol
Will keep you posted as to the outcome and thanks again.

[Red76]

Ok, didnt work.
Do you think this is a good idea?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Fiat-124 ... ccessories

[mdrburchette]

Auto-Ricambi is one of our trusted vendors. They list a phone number for questions. Why don't you give them a call.

I didn't read your first post thoroughly. Will the car try to start? does it run and continue to backfire? With the massive backfire you talked about, it's possible you have a timing belt issue. What part of NC did you move to?

[majicwrench]

If it ran before you did points, now it doesn't, is almost certianly a points issue, don't worry about belt.
I would start by putting your OLD points and condensors back in. It ran before..... I have seen more "new" bad condensors that bad "old used" condensors.
Test test test test, ........Test light to (-) term of coil, crank engine. Does light come on?? Does light flash??
It should flash. If it comes on steady, points are not closing, which grounds the (-) of the coil.
If it never lights, first check (+) side to make sure power there. And then, if it never lights, it means that something is grounded in dist, could be wires hooked up wrong or parts failures.
Test test test.

Points are super simple and work. Read thru the articles. Test

[So Cal Mark]

generally those conversions are a little fragile. How do you know that will solve your problem? Points are pretty simple really. Did you put the rotor on backwards?

[Red76]

Ok, lemme back up to the beginning.
Had trouble on my way up to NC.
Car would start without issue but had trouble running.
Noticed one of the sets of points (now I realize that was the running set) was not opening due to wear.
Did not have a feeler gague to I gaped it by sight.
Got it close enough to make the remainder of the trip.

Remember, at this point the car was running fairly good, a slight miss every now and then but I assumed that was due to the worn points.

Once I got here I figured I would change out both sets of points and condensers.
Gaped both sets of points to 0.016, I think that was correct.
I knew at that point the timing would be off a bit.
Could not get it to start.
Pulled the number 4 (I think its #4, closest to the nose of the car) plug wire to check for spark. At that point all I got was massive backfire from the exhaust.

Ok, next step.
Tried the single point conversion.
Now, I can get a slight backfire from the exhaust if I turn the distributor one way and a slight huffing from the carb if I go the other way.

I will try putting the old parts back in and see if there is a difference. The new parts I put in were " New Old Stock" so you might be on to something majicwrench.

By the way, I'm in Kernersville NC. Not too far from Winston-Salem.

[Red76]

Update
Put the old condensers back in.
Nothing, unless I rotate the distributor almost 90 degrees (pointing straight forward) counter clockwise and then I get it to were it sounds like it will almost backfire through the exhaust. But not quite.
I did find one other thing that might be a clue. The rotor. I checked to see if it could be put on backwards. To my surprise it can, but is was not. However I did notice that it was worn enough that it has almost 10 degrees of play on the shaft. Maybe that's one of the issues? Luckily I already had ordered a new cap & rotor.