What happend to the 70's Fiat??

[gaaraMRoadster]

I'm new to the fourm and i cant find loads of info about my car. I've checked for people that are selling them and i only see yrs 66'-69' and 71'-75'. Is my 1970 Fiat 850 Sport Spider crap?? No price, No real good parts, No mods, did i buy the wrong year car?? I mean everything is there i just need to get the front bumper and all the weather stripping and i am done with the restore of this car but it seems as if i stepped in to a world where this year of Fiat was forgotten about or is it just that most people don't have this year in the US??. I'll have pic's of it soon just had the engine rebuilt and the chrome redone and paint job back in 07' and just started driving it as of last Saturday .

[divace73]

Hi gaaraMRoeadster
The 850 sport spider is a great car, if you don't want it, I'd Luuuve to take it off your hands, it's just that I am a very long way away....
There are a few website dedicated to the 850, here is 1 for example http://www.mrfiat.com/index.php?car=Fia ... Fiat%20850
the 850 spiders are rare, take care of it, incidentally the X1/9 was suppose to be the model to supersede the 850 Spider and should have been called the 128 spider, however I have read somewhere the manufacturing designation number of X1/9 stayed with that vehicle, I reckon is a cooler name.

[kmead]

The fiat 850 is a rare car relatively, it came in three primary versions the Spider, the Coupe and the Sedan. Back then there were V8s that had as much displacement in one cylinder as the 850s had in the whole engine. They were only sold from 1967 through 1973 in the US. Mechanically they are different from all of the later cars in every respect. The 850 is related to the 600 (but not the same) which came before it but was barely sold in the US by Fiat

Given the age of the cars, the relatively low sales numbers and their distressing propensity to rust, there are not a lot of them left. The places that used to offer lots of parts and modifications are in many cases closed due to the age of the proprietors. For example PBS had been a place to get 850s built up, unfortunately the Paul and Bob Swenson have retired and I think Bob may have passed away.

Ebay is your friend and becoming part of the various Fiat communiities like FLU, Mirafiori and so on will be the key to you getting what you need. Its out there, you will just have to poke around a bit.

There is a national membership club in Southern California, the Rear Engine Fiat Club: http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/rea ... ership.htm

Which doesn't update its web presence but is still active. Merkel owns one of most every type of Fiat (or has in the past) and is the cochair of the Best of France and Italy Show with Jay Leno and others. He is a tremendous resource and enthusiast who can assist you with much of what you want to know.

Speed parts are harder to come by in the US for these cars but parts are available as the 850 mechanicals are very similar and were produced in many countries long after sales in the US stopped. There are still places which can build up a hot engine and so on so you are not out of luck but it won't be cheap (is anything anymore?) Wheels for 124s can be used on an 850 just don't get too crazy with tire size as you just don't have the horsepower to challenge much beyond 185/60s

In any case, no you didn't make a mistake, you did buy a rare production car which is now forty years old and hasn't been sold in 38 years so the support will be much less. I have a 1969 850 Sport Coupe which is much more rare than the car you have as they sold relatively few here and as they were considered more of a year round car versus the Spider which might have been put away for the winter.

Hope that helps and don't get discouraged, its a great car which can give a great deal of enjoyment.

[bradartigue]

Don't forget the tendency for them to catch on fire due to the fuel lines running over the exhaust side of the motor and the fuel inlets pulling out of the carburetor body!

The good thing about the 850 is I'd bet all of the ones that were total crap are long gone. The few survivors left are typically in the hands of decent people. Store it inside, keep it dry, fix the rot, and it should serve for a long time. I always liked that I could get the motors out of my 850 Spiders in about 25 minutes. 4 bolts on the back wall, some wires, a couple of engine mounts, lower it onto a roller, and get to work.

[kuhndg]

Awesome!!! An 850 thread. I picked up a 71 850 spider that I would consider an excellent survivor a few months ago. Only rot on the car was behind the seats by the drain holes. That was the first thing I attacked on the car. Karl is correct. Parts are more challenging to come by. A couple of vendors I have found too be helpful are Midwest Bayless, and Fun Imported Auto and Toys.

Anyone know the level of difficulty on changing out the clutch on these cars?

Don't forget the tendency for them to catch on fire due to the fuel lines running over the exhaust side of the motor and the fuel inlets pulling out of the carburetor body!

Brad, Wht you recommend as a good fix for this. I popped the carb off the car to rebuid and the inlet pulled out of the carb. Can I put this back together with some type of adheseive?

Bob

[bradartigue]

I recommend a couple of things:

If you can find a new Weber 30DGS then get one. Really. This is a carb made for a Peugeot (or some such frenchy) and bolts right on to the 850 manifold. If you want to run the 850 air cleaner then you can either cut the opening (or bend) on the air cleaner assembly to fit or you can do a pretty easy swap of the bowl lids. When I had 850's this carb fixed 80% of my frustration with the old carb - it idle dead smooth, it returned to idle, it accelerated, it was responsive, it was fuel efficient, it was brand spanking new, it worked out of the box.

If you can't find one then you can do a few things with the DICA you have on there. First, get a rebuild kit, then clean it up and rebuild it. Then get some JB weld and cement those brass inlets back in there. After all that tune it, and then start beating your head against the wall because it won't idle. DICAs suffer from the press-fit type of manufacturing, they weren't made to be rebuilt but thrown out, hence the throttle shafts ride on the carb casting and wear it out. I think you can disassemble it and ream them out and fit them with brass bushings, but you're talking $hundreds to rebuild something you can buy new in the DGS. If your DICA doesn't leak then great! It is truly a rare one!

I routed the fuel line differently than designed; I never liked the fuel line running over the exhaust side. IIRC I ran it through the body.

The fuel line must attach to the carb body leaving 1/8" of space between the hose and the body, otherwise heat will simply expand the hose and slowly work the inlet back out of the carb body. Then fuel goes everywhere and you get an engine fire. Same with the fuel pump inlets, leave a little space for expansion and good screw-down clamps that are solid (like FI clamps).

I can smell that little motor running right now, like a hot bbq pit.

Oh another thing I remember, you need to have the lower engine shields in place for proper cooling, otherwise air doesn't scoop into the radiator correctly.

[gaaraMRoadster]

Sweet, yea i get alot of people that stop me and ask what is it and there always shocked when i say it's a 70's Fiat. Also how would i go about lowering the front of this thing?? I never had to deal with leaf springs on a car before. I just want to drop it like an 1" to match the rear. Oh and are there any meets for Fiat in So Cal i would love to meet other owners around here and get quick help if i ever need it.

[bradartigue]

Lowering...don't know. The 850 is pretty darn low! Put bricks in hood? Remove a slat? if you put 14" rims on it from a 124 Spider then it will appear lower..

[kmead]

There are three primary ways of lowering the front of an 850:

Re-arch the main spring and have the spring eye reversed. This will lower it at least an inch

Use a lowering spring mount, there was one on Ebay a few months ago, but I think its by someone who makes them so you'll likely see them again

Have a lowered mount welded to the kingpin housings.

The first is the easiest and can likely be done locally. The second can also be done locally as the bracket could be made by a local metal shop and the last I don't suggest unless you send it out to someone who actually knows what they are doing, not many people do anymore.

Which brings us to should you lower the front end? In my mind no, I would instead start with changing the alignment to get a small amount of negative camber and ensure you have the proper amount of toe in. I would then get some proper tires, 185/60 13s will be plenty for the car.

If you get the front end working, you will then need to add a rear suspension camber compensator which can be a bit difficult to come by. I missed buying one last year (to my regret) newly made, perhaps the individual will make some more to sell, I don't know. If you hook up with Merkel, he can show what this object looks like and can assist you in understanding what you may want to do. He is an automotive engineer and has several 850s, including at least one Abarth Coupe (he has had many others but life is what it is) and can enlighten you as to what works and what doesn't.


The 850 doesn't have much suspension travel to start with, reducing the travel may look cool but doesn't really help with bump steer and other geometry issues the car has. There are other things one can do but I would start out with the simplest and then improve the car in a coordinated manner after you understand the car more.

[kmead]

Some info here:

http://www.fiatforum.com/other-fiats/33 ... nsion.html

Kingpin extension to lower the front:


Spring lowering block:

http://www.collectorcarsforsale.com/par ... 29306.html

[gaaraMRoadster]

I just ordered the lowering block now for the spindle. I will hit him up soon about that. I just want to do everything riight. That's why i'm here.

THANKSSS

[thechadzone]

Welcome to the forum, and congrats on your 850. There are at least a handful of us here who own them, or are otherwise familiar with them. I sold my '68 Spider to my brother last Summer, but I see it and drive it often.

Here's a link to a lowering block that I've heard good things about. If you're handy you could likely build one of these, but a nice finished powder coated product for $69 is hard to turn down. I just "edited" to say that while this was minimized on my laptop, you'd purchased your lowering block. Was it this one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FIAT-ABA ... 23086bab5a

Brad's knowledge and advice within his well-known article has helped me with my Twin Cam Fiat quite a bit. Extract as much info as you can from him

I have rebuilt a 30DIC-1 carb for my former '69 Sport Coupe, and it was pretty easy. I used a factory "Major" overhaul kit, and I was done in a half hour. However, I did find after reinstalling the carb that it had most of the same issues it had before. I found that it was the accelerator pedal linkage, the accelerator cable itself, and the armature atop the valve cover that were binding and in need of service.

The best tech tip I can give for the 850 is to replace its factory accelerator cable with a braided brake cable from a tandem bicycle. It sounds weird, but it makes sense; the factory accelerator cable is a solid, non-braided unit that often bends and kinks irreversibly, making it bind within the area between the pedal and the carb. A braided stainless steel cable like one for the tandem bike is long enough to reach, and won't kink or rust. It's worked very well on my brother's 850, and I wish I could take credit for thinking of it!

Other carb options include the more simple single barrel Weber 30ICF, which came standard on many 850s. It might cost you a few hp, but it's a smoother more simple carb than the aptly named DIC. The Dellorto 30FRD is a bolt on replacement, and slight upgrade for the 30ICF. It's said to match the hp of the 30DIC1 with one 30mm barrel.

Another more bitchin option is Cost Mesa R&D's Weber DGV manifold for the 850. It'll allow you to put either the DGV style Weber, or the older/more versatile 36 or 38 Weber DCD. Also offered from the same source is a performance cam that goes very well with this carb/manifold combo.

Check out the following link, and the MANY 850 performance videos this guy has on YouTube. He's extremely nice. He answers his phone, and his email. He races his own 850 regularly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbDfT12xNPA

I have a fair amount of 850 parts, hit me up & I might have something you need.

Below is a pic of my former/my brother's '68 850 Spider.

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/thech ... .jpg[/img]
project 850-3 by thechadzone, on Flickr[/url]

Below is a pic of a 903cc motor that was part of the decor of my studio loft apartment for quite a while before being installed in a '68 Sedan.

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/thech ... .jpg[/img]
Fiat 850 Art by thechadzone, on Flickr[/url]

Below is a shot of my former '69 850 Sport Coupe. I regret selling it, but Space Number 69 in the downtown parking garage just wasn't sufficient for the work it needed...

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/thech ... .jpg[/img]
Cafe Mam Event & 850 Coupe 035 by thechadzone, on Flickr[/url]

[gaaraMRoadster]

Sweet ride that's what my car looks like but a brighter red. I have to get a overhaul kit for my carb, it really needs one and my accelerator cable just started sticking and i always have to adjust the idle which sucks. But I'll message you for parts i need riight now.

[gaaraMRoadster]

Sweet ride that's what my car looks like but a brighter red. I have to get a overhaul kit for my carb, it really needs one and my accelerator cable just started sticking and i always have to adjust the idle which sucks. But I'll message you for parts i need riight now.

Oh....and that is the lowering block i ordered.

[gaaraMRoadster]

Now that i have the lowering block on it's way, lets talk Kingpin extension. How would i get my hands on them or where can i get the add on's welded. And would it be cheaper to weld or get the Ground Force 91193 Leaf Spring Hanger Kit. They sell them at JEGS, Summit Racing, and Car Junky.